MFM Minisode 183
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark

[00:00:01.08]
This is exactly right. And, well, some of my favorite murder, the mini soad, so teeny tiny. I did it. Oh, my God.

[00:00:31.07]
It's just it's like it goes right on top of your pencil. I was trying to make George I was trying to make your picture bigger on the zoom. And instead, it looks like I'm trying to start a chat. I said, look, someone's old. Oh, it's impossible. Now you just need to close it now. Is the press on me? You press me out.

[00:00:51.01]
What was that thing? That Grandmaster Flash thing. Love Grandmaster Flash. And it was on Facebook when people would tag picture. Who would put grandma? Grandma. But they wouldn't see that it actually autofill Grandmaster Flash. So many grandmothers tag themselves as grandma. The most amazing thing that ever happened. Do you know the one guy who, like, changed his mom's autofill? So every time she wrote I love you, it said, like, I shit you changed a shit.

[00:01:20.02]
And then kept going. Love, shit, shit, shit. Over and over. There's nothing better because I'm right on the precipice of being totally in the moms camp of just like I don't know how these machines work. There's a lot of blind faith involved here. And at this point in our lives, I refuse to learn. Yeah, the game was good enough for us kids.

[00:01:42.05]
I'll go back to Angelfire any fucking day of the week. Tell me and I'll go there. I'll go first. Yes, I do. Okay.

[00:01:51.07]
Okay. But I did make this way too big and now get away. Both of you. Here we go. I'm so excited about this. A hometown dump story.

[00:02:02.01]
I got one of those. You got it? Yeah, I got a few of them. I've never been more excited about writing. Hey, MFM fam. I live in NYC, but I've been staying with my parents in Wisconsin since March. Waiting to see if I have a job when my restaurant reopens. I went with my dad to drop off some stuff at the dump when he casually said, Did you hear about the man they found last summer who lived in a bunker behind here for three years, to which I replied, Tell me everything.

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I just love the idea.

[00:02:31.08]
Someone's doing that to their dad. Tell me everything. GIRL Dad, open your mouth. Spill it in 2014. A man from Stevens Point, Wisconsin, which is very strange because my friend Broadford is from Stevens point. Wisconsin isn't it's not a big town. It's very northern Wisconsin, 2014. A man from students Wisconsin named Jeremi Button was arrested for sexual assault of a child and child pornography, realizing he faced decades in prison. He decided it was time to move while out on bail.

[00:03:03.04]
He biked 30 miles north to a rustic wooded area close to Marathon County's landfill. He dug out a bunker, lining the walls with tarps and cardboard and brought in food and supplies, one backpack load at a time. In 2016, right before his court date, button left his car, wallet and a note saying he was moving to Florida for the next three years. Button hit in that hole in the ground, getting all of his necessities from the landfill nearby.

[00:03:31.00]
Can you smell? It would be. I mean, the food. Like, what are you eating? What? Like, it's never. It's a it's all pine cones and peanut butter.

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You're just like a bird. You're a bird Boy Scout project. You are friend.

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You can just eat birdseed off a pine cone right here, OK? He dug a well in a wet area of the woods and he had a fire pit with a tin can chimney for warmth button even attached an antenna to a tree and used a system of eight solar panels and numerous car batteries to power a TV lights and fans. Holy. Oh, wait. This is insanity. Oh, wait, we can't leave this out. He planted marijuana in the woods, harvesting up to a pound a year.

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Jesus, if he was not a fucking pedophile, I would be in all of this person. But I write a giant man.

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He it's like, yeah, if you only had put your energy toward good, you could have been like the greatest camping dude in the world. But instead, you're just a coward. But all this came to an end when a hiker came upon the well concealed door of the bunker and curiously went inside to find button.

[00:04:41.03]
Could you open the door in the woods? Don't open a door. The fucking woods. Like if you see a door and it's been welkin.

[00:04:50.04]
Get the fuck away from the door. Don't. There's a reason I'm not a murderer, you know, right fucking there, I'll tell you. And there's not a cute bear in it. Like a ballet tutu inside gets a well concealed door. It's a welcome decision. Pedophile, not a fuckin dancing bear.

[00:05:06.01]
That's pretty much like one of two choices. You have a voice in behind a well concealed door. It's either that or the what's hidden from the Princess Bride, the the machine of. Oh, of something pain. God damn it. It's like the apocalypse machine. It's been two hours anyhow. Don't say who cares, Steven, we can't I. There's nothing I care more about than the movie the princess made.

[00:05:35.01]
It's the greatest single ball, the greatest. Those scenes with Peter Falk and Fred Savage are so perfectly ex it. That's perfectly executed family film. If a child being actually a very realistic child for the 80s, especially a kind of a dad Braddy.

[00:05:52.08]
Yeah, Braddy at first broken down by the grandfather who's seen it all seems like a goofball, but actually is telling the greatest story of anyone's, I guess one of my favorite movies and the turn of when he's like, it's okay, you can tell me to kiss me and is the best thing that's ever happened.

[00:06:09.03]
You can go over and read it to me again tomorrow. It's the cutest. Also, I just have to say, if I met Fred Savage when I worked in episodic. That's right. Vision. He's everything you want him to be more guy. Exactly the same looking and sounding. The first time I heard his voice. I got weird, like chills. You wonder. You're like, keep your life with you. Yeah, right. And he's.

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You really get complete. He is. It's like he knows the responsibility on his. Being Fred Savage. And he's delivering. Just hand over it and has great taste in comedy.

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He's like. Such like talented. Very talented. And now a very, very hilarious. Of course. And like doing it. Been great since he was eight years old. But then also now can direct like three camera television, which is very difficult. This took a weird turn. OK, guys, we're still in the middle of this.

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Can you please shut up so I can read the rest of the story? Guys, stop it.

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It's just at the door and the door in the forest is just we need to be honest.

[00:07:11.09]
I had to talk. I did talk my way out of the panic of that. OK, so this book, this hiker went inside curiously and found button sleeping on a cot. So the hiker called nine one one. And after a standoff with police, Button finally came out and stated, I'm a wanted man and remarked that it was, quote, nice to talk to human beings. Last October, Button received 30 years in prison for his crimes, but the judge gave him a bonus, too.

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Two hundred thirty days already served for his life on the lam. Thank you, ladies, for keeping me sane through this pandemic. My mom is now a big fan. Hey, despite all the swearing, I'm sorry, in parenthesis as well. She says the same thing to me. I look forward to the day that I can bring her to a live show.

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Oh, so do you. To stay sexy and for the love of God, stay out of the forest, Marie.

[00:08:06.02]
Absolutely. OK. OK. All three of mine this week.

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Our grandparents stories. Oh okay. We always love. Always. Dear Karen, Georgia and Co.. This isn't a murder story but does fall under some of your categories of interest, namely bad ass grandparents survival stories and flash floods in the summer. All our favorite, you know, flash floods are. They are now. They are now.

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No, it's true.

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It's just, you know, my one more thing to put on the dating profile in the summer of 1976, my grandparents, who, by the way, Karen. She gave us their names and they live up to the hype. Irvin and Nancy Irvin. Cool. Yes. Not enough Irvin's anymore. And wait, is this story about Magic Johnson?

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All right. They had driven up to Estes Park, a small mountain town in Colorado, to go to their regular square dancing group. Course, my repression. The way my grandpa used to tell it on the way home, a huge thunderstorm developed over the mountains. And the night was, quote, blacker than the inside of a cow van.

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You old bullshit.

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Are you a kind of western state summer thunderstorms that are so intense that windshield wipers can't move fast enough to see clearly out of the windshield? Eventually, they had to pull over. They stayed in the car until a man started banging on their window and yelling at them to get out of their car and head for higher ground. Oh, shit. My grandparents ended up having to climb the steep canyon walls in their square, dancing outfits in the pitch dark and pouring rain.

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I could fucking picture it now. Shit.

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Swing your partner up the hill and don't see. And those, as they climbed a huge wall of water, came down the canyon and swept away cars, houses and parts of the road. Eventually they had found a group of other people who had climbed up the canyon and took shelter in a van. They spent the night that way, stranded and waiting for the morning to be rescued down on the plains. My 19 year old mom and her older brother had no idea what happened except that their parents were supposed to be driving back through the flash flooded canyon and they hadn't arrived home.

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They waited out most of the night with their own grandmother until finally getting a call late the next morning that their parents had been rescued by helicopter and taken to one of the local high schools. The big Thompson flood was one of the worst natural disasters in Colorado history. The storm that caused it dumped 12 inches of rain over the canyon in four hours.

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That's a foot high. That's a foot. You're right. Twelve inches. That's not right. Twelve inches is a foot. She means 12 feet. You had him.

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I don't know. That's. That's almost the yearly totals, right? I don't think they get. You don't think it can rain.

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Twelve feet in four hours. I don't think. Twelve inches of rain is like up here. If you're like calf. Well, I bet it's enough. California. You guys, we don't know. Rain is cute here.

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Let's listen. You can do a flood. I think of 12 inches of rain has plenty to do. A flood. Well, flood money. Yes, doctor. Please e-mail us and tell us what is a lot of rain. Yes, that seems like a ton. Great. But they does. They do say, though, that's almost a yearly total of rain for the area. And what that they have got it all in one night. Oh, shit.

[00:11:32.08]
So they weren't handle. They weren't able to handle it. And now on top of that, in the steep canyon, all of the water that fell on the hillsides collected in the big Thompson River, which is why the flood was so swift and devastating. One hundred and forty three people died and many and many homes were destroyed. Some of the cars were washed down the river with and were only identifiable by their VIN number. The sediment on in the water had completely stripped off the paint.

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Wow. At my grandparents car was never found. In 2006, three years before she died, my grandma got to meet the man who saved their lives. The guy who banged on the window, really Butch Hutchins. Of course, that's his name. He said he had stayed away from the flood memorials because he was afraid to learn that he could have done more. But it's because of him that they got to meet both my grandparents, SS DGM, Maya.

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Wow.

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Butch Hutches. Was that the name?

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Butch Hutchins and Nancy and Irvin are best friends. See, you know, it's true. We don't take like because flooding doesn't affect us that much. It is hard to imagine. But like the idea that cars were like, unrecognizable. And like that's I mean, that's don't make me say that's the power of water.

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You don't mean you don't need twelve feet. So you're the water doctor. Is it just me or ask me.

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And they water my you know, my first boyfriend died in a flash flood. No. That's real. So that's horrible. You know what he was we were we weren't together. I was you know, I was like young at the time when he dated. But then we got older, as you do. And he went off to go to college and he and his best friend just got caught up in a flash flood, swept under a fucking semi.

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And my guy.

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He was such a wonderful person. It's really tragic. My Torreblanca Lewis, we met at Jewish camp now. It's so sad. And people die young.

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No. OK. OK, I'm ready for more about stuff. Oh, always cool. This is New Jersey's Bermuda Triangle Underwater Ghost Town. There you go. Hey, you relate. I did. Lady of the Lake Live Show, right? I believe so. I was. That's a is that in one of the Carolinas.

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Like, yeah, maybe. Oh maybe Lana. I did like lame, but that's not Lady of the LRE. It is a haunted lake that got sent that night.

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But if I did it I think I did. But I can check. OK. It says this title is intriguing enough after hearing about a fellow murderer who knows Underwater Ghost Town in Minnesota 181. I immediately thought of a similar underwater ghost town near my hometown that is also referred to as New Jersey's Bermuda Triangle. Round Valley Reservoir was built in the 1960s in the small town of Lebanon, New Jersey. The state built two dams and flooded the small farming community that once existed at the bottom of the Kosheh Tunc Valley.

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This included an old schoolhouse and several homes. As water poured in, the remains of the town sank more than 150 feet to the bottom of the reservoir to be forever lost.

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Or so many in the 70s, the reservoir and surrounding area became a peaceful place for boating, fishing, swimming, hiking and scuba diving. There are videos from divers that have gone to the bottom of the reservoir and film the old building foundations that still exist below the surface. As many have enjoyed the waters, boaters began to go missing over the past 50 years. More than two dozen people, that's 24 people have gone missing and have died while boating, fish and fishing in the.

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Oh, my God. Yeah, it's a lie. I know.

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I believe the first disappearance was in the early 70s when two men and. The boat went missing, all of them. Everything goes down together. Their bodies were never found again, but their boat hit the shore a few days after. Four years later, two friends that went fishing were reported missing by their families. They were last seen sailing on the northern shore of the park when their empty canoe came to shore. A few days after they were reported missing.

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It's the oddest story from the wives of our happened in the late 1980s. Two friends vanished on a fishing trip on March 18th, 1989, after submarine searches of the water. Neither of the men were found. Flash forward to 1993. So, like four years later, the body of one of the men was found preserved, still fully dressed with boots on. When a fisherman caught the body with his hook. Although it's believed that most of the deaths were from drowning.

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Locals suspected a wind vortex or bad energy from the former farm town are responsible for the strange deaths. Pulling boats under the water.

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There are still bodies and boats that have yet to be found. Mystery of the reservoir still remains. When a human foot without an owner was found in 2012, the FBI and the New Jersey State Police have scraped the bottom of the reservoir looking for human remains. Of the many who have perished there with no results.

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Growing up, my friends and I would go to this park all the time and often to do the nefarious well and to do the various activities that high schoolers do and mean you have mine just like hanging upside down, like bats and trees and boating, hiking and camping around the reservoir myself.

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I was constantly on the lookout for ghost canoes or body parts. Sadly, nothing that crazy has ever happened to me there. My sister lived down the hill from the reservoir for a few years and said it became quite annoying when she would hear helicopters hovering over the park constantly. You would think they wouldn't allow boating anymore. Thank you for being two voices that I listened to. I'm in the midst of anxiety attacks and I need to calm myself down or hey, or accompanying me on a long drive.

[00:17:22.07]
Despite a pandemic, my partner and I are moving from NYC to Los Angeles. And I will need you to go across the country. Stay out of the forest, but also stay out of the water.

[00:17:34.03]
Bri, that's crazy to me because I feel like people who fish regularly and people who both are pretty. Like experience. You don't I mean, like, they're not just going to like. Well, we worked it out of their boat, like probably you and I would do. They're like they own the rules and they know what to do and what not to do. And, you know, the a.k.a. the rules. And so that's just creepier. I mean, it's.

[00:17:57.03]
Yes, and it's also when you think of like if two fishermen go out in the really early morning, something could happen. And it's like they say it's a rogue wave on a lake, which I don't even know if that's possible. No Robledo on the lake. Boom. They're in the water. It's over. And no one saw it or heard it like that idea. And I won't even get into the reality of the Loch Ness Ness Monster. Absolutely.

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Coming up and knocking you out. Totally.

[00:18:23.06]
I mean, that's what I think is, you know, water levels like Eyre explains, experts like doctors is a rogue wave possible ex lake exports, the experts export cheeses. I can speak today.

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Right.

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This is another Granpa story and it starts, hey, sexy ladies, mustache and pets.

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Kind of reductive, but I like it. I like it. I recently got hooked on your podcast after my baby sister bought me and MFM logo PIN, the proceeds of which go to beam. My story has to do with the day I found out that my grandfather killed a man who grandpa was born in 1929 in a tiny town in Kentucky and dropped out of school in seventh grade because back then it was a totally legit thing to do. From what I know of my grandpa, he was a hands on learner who could do just about any job you threw at him.

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This man taught himself how to repair lawnmowers. Who even does that these days, Aymen?

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Yeah, he worked hard his whole life and had some amazing stories about being a ranch hand for a bit. And I will never tire of repeating his quote. You could get yourself a quarter and buy a Coke and a bag of peanuts and see a movie stories.

[00:19:36.00]
Simpler times. Anyway, in 2009, my grandpa had a sudden decline in health and needed hospice care. Our family had been under his house for the past several days, keeping my grandmother company as my grandpa passed. And when my dad suggested we'd go to lunch while at lunch, my dad somewhat casually mentioned that my grandpa had accidentally killed his best friend when they were young adults. Apparently my grandpa and his friend would run moonshine because of. Because of fucking course they did.

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It was Kentucky. And on one such run, my grandpa was driving after drinking some of their product. He crashed the truck and ended up killing his friend in the accident. I know my dad told me that grandpa never drank again and was, of course, heartbroken over his friend's death. Hours after my dad told me this tale.

[00:20:19.09]
My grandpa ended his time on this earth. It was a totally wild experience for me to hear that my sweet grandpa had to live with this guilt and pain for 60 plus years. I was a sophomore in college when he passed in this family's story directly influence my strong stance on drinking responsibly. Stay sexy. And for the love of God, don't drink and drive. S.

[00:20:40.05]
Oh wow. Ounces. Carrying that with you your whole life. What a horrible sad. Because of what I mean, we used to talk about that all the time that I made so many incredibly irresponsible decisions in the 90s and the I could have very easily killzone with my car very easily. Only so many times or even just gotten a DUI.

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Just like ruined your own life. Yeah. Oh, you're not. I was there trying my hardest. You're not special.

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You're not going to get away with something like that. If you chance it. It's crazy. And sometimes if you do get away with it, that you live with that horrible feeling of like Jesus Christ.

[00:21:18.08]
It's so irresponsible. All right. I'm sorry I said that. You're not special, everyone. You're special to me. It hurt.

[00:21:26.04]
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[00:23:08.01]
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[00:23:12.05]
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[00:23:56.09]
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[00:24:29.00]
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[00:24:54.06]
Hello. Fresh out. Com for more details. Remember it's hello. Fresh dot com slash MFM 80 and use code MFM Avey to get a total of eighty dollars off including free shipping on your first box. Goodbye. OK, well, this is a granpa one, too, and we're going back to Wisconsin, okay, ready? Yeah. Hello. All human and animal. This isn't so much a hometown murder, but a connection to a serial killer.

[00:25:19.07]
First, a little background. I grew up in a small town in rural south west Wisconsin, and my grandpa is a funeral director. Growing up in a funeral home is probably what made me the murderer, you know, I am today. I swear it's not really as weird as it sounds. One day when I was at home for a visit, my mom and I started talking about your crime. As one does. I asked her if grandpa had ever dealt with any murders in our town.

[00:25:41.03]
She paused for a moment and then proceeded to tell me the best story I've heard about my grandpa when my grandpa was in mortuary school. He and his classmate were called out to a crime scene to help with some bodies. That crime scene was none other than Ed Gaines house.

[00:25:56.05]
Holy shit.

[00:25:58.04]
Right? My grandpa was there when they arrested Ed Geen. What he says he remembers most of the house was that the normalness of the scene. There was a pot boiling on the stove like he was getting ready for lunch. Super creepy. No, that's not the creepy.

[00:26:14.08]
It wasn't a boiler head or something. I mean, that's I don't know. He could've it could've been like the top Román in one pot and then his mother's skull and another. I can remember now because my grandpa was a mortuary school. He was there to deal with any dead bodies. He and his classmate had to collect and bag all the body parts that were found in at Gene's home, including the skin lamp and the nipple belt to make it worse.

[00:26:42.01]
They found the body of his last victim. Yep. That's the one I was thinking of, which is the woman that was in that out in the garage to make it worse. They found the body of his last victim, Bernice Warden, but had not found her head. Again, my grandpa had to help search the whole house for her head. Eventually, they found it wrapped up in a sailor, a wool sailor coat in a trunk. My grandpa still has a scrapbook of all the news clippings of Ed Gaines case and arrest.

[00:27:07.01]
If you ask him, he'll tell you about it.

[00:27:09.01]
Holy shit, Grandpa. My grandpa is such a sweet, quiet, kind man. Hearing this story about him just makes me love him all that much more. Anyway, I love you and your podcast. It helps me through times of depression and makes me feel like I wasn't a weirdo for liking crime. Thanks for all you do. A bonus story. There was once a farmer that came into the funeral home having died of a supposed heart attack when they were when they were preparing the body.

[00:27:32.08]
My grandpa found that there was actually a bullet in the man's heart. The police investigated and discovered the hired man that worked on the farm had actually shot the farmer. I can't remember the motivation, but he would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for my pay. That was from Egypt. Thank you.

[00:27:49.09]
Unbelievable. Horrible. I mean, like, I don't care what business you decided you wanted to go into. Nobody was like, and this is where I'd like to end. Dowdle gains house Ed gains a mental melt meltdown home.

[00:28:05.08]
Yeah. There's nothing that prepares you. No matter how much like how comfortable you are working with that bodies, there's nothing that's going to, like, mentally prepare you for that. Probably. Hopefully, because you you're supposed to work with dead bodies. The guy on a farm is not supposed to have a houseful of dead body types. That's look, I'm going to go out on a limb and say it isn't.

[00:28:25.04]
I think that was from Boota who said that it was wrong. It was wrong.

[00:28:29.06]
What Ed Geen did slash strong stance, make hair and Kilgariff, Kilgariff, Dash Ozio. That's the old quote. OK, here's another dumped into this quote. I said, that's my Pinterest quote. I got it. OK. This one's a grandparent story and a dumpster treasure story.

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This is full circle, huh? Hello, friend doughs. Thank you. He's only got the cereal. I love it. I just listened to many Soad 182 where you all asked for dumpster treasure stories and I had a write in. My grandfather was the most influential person in my life and was such a steadfast source of advice and support during my challenging high school and college years. When he died two years ago after a two year battle with Al S..

[00:29:16.02]
I asked my grandmother if I could take his favorite blue card again, and she said yes and then asked if I knew the story behind it. When her grandfather, my great grandfather, was dropping off their garbage at the local dump in Wakefield, Michigan, he came across a box filled to the brim with old clothes. He dug through it and found the blue cardigan after trying it on. He decided to keep it. My great grandmother was appalled that he would take home a, quote, dumpster sweater and insisted that he get rid of it.

[00:29:44.06]
However, my incredibly strong willed finish great grandfather decided to keep it and only wear it when he went to work. A couple years later, my great grandmother found it, found the cardigan sitting in his work case, and she tried to get rid of it again. But he found out and told her that he would give it away instead. And I could fuck in a map like picture this grandfather Cardigan Blue Card and Caillaux. Yep. Yeah, yeah.

[00:30:07.01]
We probably had it in our closets. Lives like always, the oyster shell button. Four of them. There's like a little bottom, the crocodile or on the lips. My grandmother just met my grandfather a few months prior and they had just started dating. My great grandfather loved my grandfather and decided to give him the card again. My grandmother came from a very, very poor family and decided to take it because most of his clothes were filled with holes and old fast-Forward 60 years.

[00:30:38.03]
And that same blue cardigan is now sitting in my closet. I love that he gave it to somewhere like the great grandmother would have to see regularly. It's pretty great. Also, it's like a gift until you go like I got that at the dump. It was here, this gift. You thought it was a wonderful gift. It's crazy to think that my favorite blue cardigan was discovered in the early 1950s at a dump in Wakefield, Michigan. But I'm so glad I have it now.

[00:31:05.02]
It makes me feel so much more connected to my grandfather and even my great grandfather, who passed away a few weeks before I was born. Thank you guys for all you do. I am going on to school to get my master's in nursing and I wouldn't be where I am today without you both normalizing, getting help for my crippling anxiety and depression. Nice yellow rocks stay sexy and socially distance. Y'all kindly live.

[00:31:28.09]
Amazing story. I love that.

[00:31:32.05]
I miss drifting so much. It's very sad. I miss surfing in the late 80s, 90s when there was actually true treasure cover before the before eBay. Yeah. I mean you had to do it yourself. Yeah. And all that. Like all the old stuff was there.

[00:31:49.09]
Yeah. And you could really find treasure. Treasure. Strange. True. Sometimes it's smell. Sometimes he brought mom home dear. Look, sometimes you are genuinely poor and just needed a shirt. 50 cents for a shirt. Sometimes you think you know, you needed it. Been you also look, you did it for you like she is you. Or you could younglings your choices because you're young and you have no idea. US any story implementor at this point.

[00:32:18.09]
Yeah, but we do know what's good. Yeah. You know what's compelling. Right. My favorite murder, Jamaah. You can go on our Web site. My favorite murder dot com. There's a place to send in your hometowns or there's like a forum on the fan culture where everyone just shares each other's stories. Cool.

[00:32:34.02]
Say sexy and don't get murdered. Yeah. Elvis, do you want a cookie?