Wndyri Plus subscribers can listen to Morbid early and ad-free. Join WNDYRI Plus in the WNDYRI app or on Apple podcasts. You're listening to a Morbid Network podcast. A blood bath tonight in the rural town of Chinook. Everyone here is hiding a secret. Four more victims found scattered. Some worse than others. I came as fast as I could. I'm Deputy Ruth Vogal. And soon, my quiet life will never be the same. You can listen to Chinook exclusively on Wondry Plus. Join Wondry Plus on the Wondry app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify Podcasts. Hey, weirdos, I'm Ash. And I'm Elaina. And this is Morbid.

This is morbid.

This is how we morbid. Boom. We'll get soon if we go on for too long.

Yeah, I just wanted to do that quick little thing. But I don't know because I feel like Montell Jordan might be my friend now. Oh, yeah. I forgot about that. Because I got a cameo from him for John, and he told John to have a powerful new year.

A powerful new year. That's what it was.

It was one of the... Honestly, one of the coolest cameos. I know this is very random and very off topic.

You know us.

But Montell Jordan does a cameo.

And also, he is handsome.

He is so handsome. And he was so genuine and kind in the cameo.

It made him handsomer. It really did.

So he was a great one. So if you're ever looking for a cameo for someone, Montell Jordan, and he'll give you a little, this is how we do it, and the voice is still there.

And he goes right into the voice, like singing from talking. And you're just like, people that can do that. We were saying it the other day, Sheena. Shee Shee. She can just be like, Yeah, and then... But it doesn't sound like how I just sounded. It sounds like a fucking goddess from above.

Sheena can literally be talking to you and in the middle of the sentence, we'll just belt out a note and you're like...

And you just stand there and stare at her. You're like, That's stupid.

That's stupid. Stop that. That's stupid, Sheena.

Remember when we first hung out with her and she sang for us and it was the most insane thing on the planet? I think she made us cry. No, literally. Yeah.

Like, Sheena Malwani for the win. Also, go check out our music on Spotify. Yeah. Go find it.

Or anywhere, really. And go listen to her and Tred's podcast together. Hell, yeah. It's called Sheena Sheena interrupted. Because she is. It's funny.

But yeah, so those are pluggie-plug-plugs for all the cool- That's our friends. For Montell Jordan. If you know our friend Montell.

I was just going to say, Our friend Montell Jordan and our friend Sheena Malwani.

I'm just counting him among friends at this point. But yeah, a couple of exciting things. So one exciting thing for my ghosties out there, my goules, my goulets, my goules. I know you saw that announcement. I know you saw that ghost announcement.

I walked into the room and Elaina just held up her phone at me and I was like, what does that mean?

It's something's happening.

And she told me everything in the world that it could possibly mean.

Something's happening. I saw somebody theorize because if In case she didn't see it, which like, go look.

If you live under a fucking rock.

No, I'm just kidding. Ghost, they posted that because we've all been waiting.

We've all been waiting. For anybody that doesn't know at this point, it's a band.

It's the band Ghost. I'd be shocked if you didn't know at this point because who Elaina is as a human.

Did you just join now?

Yeah. Maybe. But the band Ghost posted this thing because we've all been waiting to find out what happens to Papa there. We're all worried. And so it's been quiet. And then we get this little video of him twirlling around on stage, which like, we missed it.

Just Bebopalipa babying.

And in the middle of that video, you see a little boop, you see Sister in there. Just a little flash.

It is Sister.

And we said, huh, what's that? And then, of course, I look because I know Ghost fans will always immediately start putting those pieces together for me, which I appreciate. So I looked and it is very much a reference to the dream that the priest has in the Exorcist that foreshadows his death, his demise. Oh, shit.

Yeah.

So something's happening, guys. Something's happening. We got movement. We came up for air for a minute. So I don't know. You're just all in it with me. I know this.

I was going to say, I just got the lure from you. I'm not a diehard by any stretch, but you tell me what I need to know. Me and Mikey were sitting here, flipped, and Mikey just went...

When he saw it first, actually, Mikey was in the room and you just went, and then I heard the music and I was like, what is that? I was like, show me that now. We both just sat on the couch and watched it and we're like...

Yeah, I don't know what I was doing.

So something's happening. I think it says, Coming to cinema. So I'm assuming it's the Los Angeles tour. They did two nights in Los Angeles, I think it was, and it was very secret, very cool. So I think that's probably going to be part of it. But I'm excited.

So what you're saying is you're going to be dragging me to the movie soon. Hell, yeah.

I'm Hell, yeah. I'm going to be dragging all you all to the movies.

Everybody's coming to the movies.

You're all coming. We're all going together.

Everybody out here coming to the movies.

And a funny little side note coming off of that is one of my twins was sick recently, and we had to bring her to the pediatric urgent care or whatever.

A little muffin.

And it was fine. It was just a chesty cold. So we wanted to make sure it wasn't like, anything pneumony-y. Yeah, it sounded foul. Yeah. Just suddenly, everything's going around. So We were bringing her to the pediatric urgent care. And John brought her while I stayed with the other ones. And he said, On the way there and on the way back, because she was like a little... She just wasn't feeling good and she didn't want to go to the doctor's, little kid things. And she asked, he was like, what can I put on for you in the car? To make you feel better. On the way there and on the way back, all she wanted to listen to was Ghost. That's all she wanted to listen to. And then it made her happy. He was like, she was giggling by the end of... She loved Ghost. By the time I got there. She was asking about certain lyrics. She was totally into it.

See, that's the fun thing about having kids is you can show them music and hope that they like it.

And when they genuinely like it, that's when it really hits right because you can show them it. You can be like, I love this. I hope you do. You know what I mean?

You don't want to influence them in that way.

You want to just show them and open it up to them and be like... And they've always heard me listening to it. And she is. She loves it.

My kid doesn't like Harry Style's Lady Gaga and Mac Miller. I'd like a refund. Like a return on investment, please.

It's fun. It's fun to see their little personalities. Yeah. But that was fun. And I think the only other thing that I got to say before we start this case is go to thebutchergame. Com com.

Buy that bitch's book.

The sequel to The Butcher and the Run. So go get it. Go pre-order it. It's coming out September 17th. There's going to be all kinds of fun things up until September 17th. So keep an eye out, keep an ear out. And after. You know, all of it, especially after, but even leading up. So go pre-order that bitch because pre-orders are great. And I love a pre-order. And pre-order is a little hard to say. So I'm tripping over it a little bit. But, you know, you're here with me.

I think we said that last time. Yeah, it's hard. I It's not easy. You should just say, 'prouder', which is actually even harder to say. Pre-order. But also the people that got it right away and are getting the posters, I got to see the poster yesterday. They're cool. Fucking sick.

They're really cool.

You have to sign all those?

Yeah, I'm going to sign all those.

She just will just be chilling in the day and she just is signing stacks and stacks of different things.

I'm like, wow. I was so much signing, but happy to do it. Oh, yeah. It's really cool. I will sign all the books, all the things. Send them books. But, yeah, go to thebutchergame. Com and it will lead you to all the places that you can get it, Barnes & Noble, all the places. So go do that because that would be sick. And pre-orders really help me as the author. So I hope you guys dig it. It's much more gnarly, like I said, it's longer, so you'll dig it, I hope.

I can't wait for it.

So do that, guys.

You guys have been great.

And I think that's really all the stuff we wanted to tap into.

Montell, Ghost, Sheena, Books, Ghost, Ghost.

The importance.

Yeah. All right. Now onto the show. I, today, am going to be talking about the Santa Rosa Hitchhiker murders, which I will tell you off of the top is a very, very tragic tale. Oh, no. And it is unsolved. Oh, no. But there was some activity as recently as... Actually as recently as this past year. Really? But I don't know if it's going to go anywhere. And then there was before that as recent as 2022. Oh, shoot. And I'll tell you right up off of the, I don't know, at the top here.

Right up right, you know. Right here. Right on the side there.

Right over here. I'll tell you that there was DNA found on some of these bodies. So hopefully they might be able to do something with it. I don't know if like, I don't know. It's all crazy. Who can be sure? It all starts on the evening of February fourth, 1972, when middle school friends Maureen Sterling and Yvonne Webber left their homes. They were dropped off at the Redwood Empire Ice Arena in Santa Rosa, California. They ended up leaving the Ice Arena at some point in time, and it's believed that they tried to hitch a ride somewhere else. Unfortunately, it was the last time that either girl would be seen alive. They were middle schoolers? Middle schoolers, yeah. Nearly one year later, the bodies of Maureen and Yvonne were discovered at the foot of a steep embankment in a very rural part of Santa Rosa, and they were identifiable only by the jewelry that Maureen had been wearing the that she left the house. By the time the remains of both of those girls were found, actually three other young women from the Santa Rosa area had gone missing or been found murdered. And all of those women were seen hitchhiking just prior to their disappearance.

So in time, law enforcement officials would link Sterling and Webber's murders to three other women discovered in 1972, and then three others that occurred in the year that followed, all believed probably to have been killed by the same man or men. They're not quite certain if it was one person who did this or if it was multiple.

Oh, that's even scarier.

Yeah. The Santa Rosa Hitchhiker murders, as they're informally known, they're one of California's most perplexing cold cases in the state's history. In addition to the eight women who are believed to be victims of this same killer or killers, there are also several others who disappeared under very similar circumstances and actually could be potential victims. There's been many theories that we'll get into as we go through this, but let's start a little bit backwards now and go to the afternoon of March fourth, 1972. This was when 19-year-old Kim Allen had finished her shift at, I think it's Larkspur Natural Foods. It's like a small grocery store about three miles outside of San Rafael. That night, Kim, after she finished her shift there, was going to be heading to class at the Santa Rosa Junior College, and that was about 45 minutes away. And because of the '70s of it all, her plan was to hitchhike to get to class. It was something she did a lot. It was pretty normal. Yeah. So a little after 05:00 PM, she caught a ride with two men headed in the direction of Santa Rosa, but they were actually only going a few miles down the road.

They were like, We can give you We can get you a little bit of time off your commute here, but we're not going super far. Later, those two men would tell investigators that they dropped Kim off at the San Rafael exit from Highway 101, where they saw her continue hitchhiking as they made their way into town. The next day, unfortunately, two high school students were taking a shortcut through the woods near Bennett Valley Road, not far from where Kim was last seen, and they stumbled upon the nude dead body of a young woman at the bottom of a steep embankment. A lot of these women are found at the bottom of an embankment. So these two students ran to get help, and the Sanoma County Sheriff's Department got to the scene just a few minutes later. They responded really quickly. There, like I said, no clothes. There was no other items found near the body. All they really had found at the scene was a wire around the woman's neck that appeared to be the cause of death. Based on his cursory examination of the scene, Sanoma County coroner Andrew Johnson concluded the young woman was, quote, apparently tortured to death, as the marks on her neck indicated that the cord had been slowly tightened over time.

Oh, that's awful. Yeah. He told reporters, and this is horrible, this is a quote, It took her at least half an hour to die.

Oh, that is horrific to think about.

Whoever did this, did it slowly and methodically, this one specific murder, slowly and methodically.

And you have to think about how long 30 minutes is.

Oh my God. 30 minutes is a long time.

That is a long time.

Think about driving somewhere 30 minutes away and How much... How many things you pass.

And how long that feels like it takes, but when you are fighting to live. Yeah.

And the other thing was, in addition to the wire around this woman's neck, there were also wire or rope burns around her wrists and ankles, and she had sustained a minor injury to her collarbone. So the fact that she was slowly choked was not the only thing she had gone through. Oh my gosh. The coroner also found evidence of sexual assault indicated by semen found on the body, as well as an substance that would later be identified as a lubricant common in machine shops. Oh, this is awful. You would think that would be something to go off of, the fact that they found semen, but it just gets crazier. The only other evidence collected at the scene was a single gold earring, the match for which was never recovered. Now, that's going to be a running theme in this case. Really? Yes. But near the top of the embankment, investigators discovered an impression in the soil about a foot long and 14 inches deep, and they actually believed it could have been caused by the killer when he slipped and fell while dumping the body.

Oh, that's so chilling.

It really is. Like, picturing that in your head. Given the size of the hole and the angle at which the killer would have fallen, they had reason to believe he, quote, may have broken his leg or sustained an injury serious enough to require medical treatment. Wow. So investigators released a description of the woman to the press, which prompted a flurry of activity at the Sheriff's office. There were tons of people with missing loved ones showing up, fearing that this woman might be their person and looking for answers. Which really tells you what was going on in California at this time. It's just the fact that there were so many people with missing loved ones.

Seriously. And they were all thinking this could be theirs.

Yeah. But finally, on March ninth, Kim's roommates made a tentative identification, and then that identification was confirmed a few hours later by Kim's own sister, who had to go identify her body. That's awful.

Hey, morbid. This is Weirdos.

Since Elaina betrayed me and didn't go through with our brilliant plan for opening episode 544, The Career Girl Murders Part One, we thought that we'd get it right with this go-around as we tell you about one of our favorite deep dives that you might have missed within our feed.

In August 1963, Patricia Tolles returned home from work to find her apartment demolished. Shaken, she contacted one of her roommate's father's who stumbled across a truly grizzly murder scene.

The media created a narrative that would, to their benefit, sell newspapers.

Every headline set out to make single women feel afraid and deter them from pursuing personal independence instead of focusing on how people are depraved and that we should stop assholes from being assholes. You can find this episode by following Morbid and scrolling back a little bit to episode 544, The Career Girl Murders, Part One, or by searching Morbid Career Girls wherever you listen to podcasts.

Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run dark. In this new crime thriller, Religion and Crime Collide When This Small Montana community is rocked by a gruesome murder. As the town is whipped into a frenzy, everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager. But local Deputy Ruth Vogtle isn't convinced. She suspects connection to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent Vee B. Laro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. She and Ruth form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone's watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy Award nominee, Santa Leighton, and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook plungees listeners into the dark belly of a small town where the lines between truth and deception are blurred, and even the most devout are not who they seem. Chinook is available to listen to now exclusively with your WNDRI Plus subscription. You can subscribe to WNDRI Plus on the WNDRI app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.

In talking with friends and family, Sheriff's detectives learned that Kim was last seen leaving work on the evening of March fourth, wearing a three-quarter-length coat and an aluminum frame backpack. She was also carrying a medium-sized wooden soy barrel with Chinese characters on it, but none of those things were discovered with her body or ever found.

Interesting.

With very few clues or evidence to work from, detectives on the case quickly reached a dead end after exhausting just the few leads that they'd been given from her friends and family. The Sheriff's Department actually reached out to University of California criminologist Peter Barnet for assistance. But unfortunately, Unfortunately, while Barnet was able to provide some insight into the type of person who would commit this crime, his assistance didn't really bring them any closer to identifying a suspect. He was like, I can tell you who your suspect would be like, but I can't name anybody. But I can't grab you someone.

Yeah. Right.

After about a month, investigators had run down every single lead they had, and the case looked as though it had gone cold. In late April, Lieutenant Charles Kinsba told reporters that the investigation, had become a matter of routine as detectives began scanning any new case for similarities. He said it may turn out to be a lifelong process, essentially indicating that the killer might never be caught.

Oh, that's awful. Especially after You know, like these are torture, long periods of time. Like, this isn't quick or crime of passion things. You know what I mean? This person or these people are taking time with these victims. And for them to... And I understand they had nothing to go on, but to just think of them saying, We're probably never going to catch this person or these people. Is like, What? How can they get away with that? How can they get away with spending that much time hurting someone and then dumping them in a place where they can be found?

And we'll see people saw a couple of weird things, but you're like, how did more people not see something going on? You know what I mean? There's definitely a few weird spottings. So I don't think if this was one person or... I tend to believe that it was multiple, at least two people. And I There are theories, and I wonder if you agree with me who it possibly could have been. Oh, okay. Possibly. I'm not positive. But you just wonder how more people didn't see stuff because I don't think these people were as careful as they thought they were. But then Obviously, they were or he was. Because they were able to.

Yeah. Right. That's what's so interesting is you're like, Is it one person or is it multiple people?

I think two. Really? I do think two. I'll be interested to see what you think. Yeah. So although they struggled to find evidence in the case. Evidence actually did seem to find its way to investigators, and this is weird. About three weeks after her body was discovered in San Rafael, someone dropped Kim's checkbook into a mailbox in Kentfield, about 50 miles away.

Huh?

Then at the end of March, there did appear to be a break in the case when police arrested 38-year-old mechanic, Robert Bouchon, I believe it is, for kidnapping and assaulting a hitchhiker. Interesting. He had picked up a hitchhiker and held her at knife point while he bound her wrists and took her back to his apartment where he forced her to spend the night. The young woman was actually able to escape the next morning, and she called police, at which time Bouchon was arrested. But although he was eventually tried and convicted, excuse of that particular kidnapping, investigators actually determined he was not responsible for Kim's murder. Really? I couldn't find the key piece that got him away from, that got him off of it, but they deemed him They cleared him. That's interesting. They cleared him. Yeah. I don't think it was him who did this because, as we'll see, bodies keep showing up in similar circumstances. Okay. While they struggled to make any progress on the case, Kim's story obviously shined a light on growing concerns around hitchhiking in the US. This was the point where people were like, I don't think this is as safe as we thought it was.

Oh, no. Now, interestingly, hitchhiking really started during the Depression of the '20s and '30s. People were just doing it out of necessity. But by the mid '20th century, it actually fell out of popularity once things stabilized after World War II. People just weren't really doing it. But then for some reason, by the 1960s, This new generation of young people had revived the practice. I think they were looking for adventure and freedom. Obviously, they didn't realize the inherent danger in getting into a car with a stranger. When you're young, you think you're invincible. We've all been there. Kim's parents and teachers had actually warned her over and over like they really didn't want her hitchhiking, but she insisted it was safe, and she had evidence that it was safe. She had done it so many times. So of course, in her mind, she felt safe.

Why would she think it's going to change?

I've done this a million times. Why would it be any different the next time? So sad. One of her teachers told reporters, I do believe she loved everyone and believed everyone to be good. I think that for my part, and in order to make Kim's memory meaningful, I shall set about finding some way at our school to reeducate those to the fact that the practice of hitchhiking can be deadly. So just a really sweet teacher that wanted to keep Kim's memory alive and protect other kids.

That's so sad, though.

But But despite the growing public concerns around hitchhiking, obviously people kept doing it.

People do it today. I was going to say they still do it.

But unfortunately, it created a very easy unsuspecting pipeline for countless violent predators. The issue did come up again in April when another Santa Rosa junior college student went missing less than two months after Kim. On April 25th, a little after 9:00 AM, Janette Kamahili left her home in Cotadi, California, telling her roommate she was just headed for class, but she never showed up to class, and she never came back home. Her roommate later told reporters this was completely out of character for Janette. She always communicated where she was going, and she just was not the girl to just run away and go somewhere else.

It wasn't one of those where they're like, Oh, she could have just took off.

Exactly. Not at all. So when Janette still hadn't returned by midnight, her roommate did call the sheriff's office to report her missing. And a few days later, after the news of Jeanette's disappearance had begun to circulate, one of her friends called the Sheriff's Department with some information. The friend claimed that on the day Jeanette disappeared, he actually saw her hitchhiking on the off-ramp from Highway 101, not far from where Kim Allen was last seen. The friend was about to pull up and offer Jeanette a ride, but before he could, the vehicle in front of him, which he described as a 1950s pickup, fitted with a homemade wooden camper, pulled over and Jeanette got in the passenger side. The described the driver as a white man in his 20s or 30s, but he was unable to make out any other distinct features. Unfortunately, Jeanette's remains were never found. It's possible that she's still alive somewhere, but she is generally considered a victim of the hitchhiker killer. Oh, that's awful. Because of that last sighting of her and the proximity of where she was last seen and where Kim Allen was last seen. And as we know.

But to not have any concrete answer. Any closure or answer to that is like, that always kills me when it's like, because it could go either way. It's like that family is sitting there holding out hope, obviously.

Of course.

But it's... And you want, Like they say in Shoshank redemption, it's like, hope is one of the best things. Yeah. But you also think of the dark side of that of like, but they don't have the answer. And it's like, what if it's bad answer?

And I think just knowing who Kim was, they assumed the worst. She wasn't just going to run away, like I had said.

That's the thing. So I think it's probably one of those things where they just want to know.

Because then your mind fills in all the countless Of course. Nightmarish possibilities.

Of course. I can't imagine.

And I should have said this in the beginning. It is a bummer. There's not a ton of personal information, details about these women's lives. I tried my best to find anything I could, but there's just not a ton about them. So I put in what I could. Yeah. But like the Allen case, investigators searching for Jeanette had nothing to go on. And again, the case quickly went cold. As months passed and there were no new attacks on hitchhikers, law enforcement in Santa Rosa actually started to feel relieved, and they were thinking that the Allen and Kamahili cases were possibly just random crimes. But then on December 14th, 1972, a couple walking their dog found the nude body of a teenage girl at the bottom of a steep embankment on a road on the edge of Santa Rosa. Like the Kim Allen case, there was no clothing, no personal effects at the scene, and the only distinguishing feature was the girls chipped red nail polish, which I think we said it in the Willy Picton case. There was one victim who had her toenails painted red. You just think of somebody taking the time to do that in life, not knowing that it's going to be the last time.

That's the last time they're going to- The last time. I used to think that during autopsies a lot. Yeah. If somebody had their nails painted, I was always like, did you know that that was the color? It was likely not.

The last color you were going to wear?

It's just one of those things. I used to think that was hairstyles, too, or a piece of jewelry that you put on. I'm like, did you know that was the last time that you would put that on. It makes you like, oh.

And for a lot of people, I'm sure no, they didn't know that was going to be the last thing. It's so sad. It's haunting. But due to the cold weather, this body was also frozen when it was discovered, making the exact of death pretty impossible to determine, but the coroner estimated she had been there for about a week or two.

Okay.

Within a few days, investigators were able to use dental records to positively identify the body as that of 13-year-old. Oh, Stop. Thirteen-year-old Lori Cursa, a local junior high student who had run away from home on November 11th. Just like the other victims, Lori was last seen hitchhiking in the Santa Rosa area on November 20th or 21st. After completing the autopsy, the pathologist estimated that Lori had died sometime between December first and December eighth. She was out there hitchhiking for a while. Wow. Which 13-year-old girl, that's a baby. Thirteen. Just out there on the fucking mean streets by herself.

Oh, that kills me.

It breaks your heart. That kills me. And this is really, really graphic and intense, just so everybody knows. The cause of death was listed as dislocation of the last and second cervical vertebrae with compression and hemorrhage of the spinal cord due to trauma.

Holy shit.

So this young girl was brutalized. Truly brutalized. Brutalized. That second and last and second vertebrae is like, you were saying, up in your neck. Oh my gosh. And they were dislocated. So you can only imagine what happened to her. That's a lot of trauma. Yeah. Severely, severely.

I can't get over the 13. I mean, oh, jeez.

It's horrible. Now, unlike Kim Allen, there was no sign of sexual assault and nothing to specifically indicate, actually, that Laurie had been murdered. In fact, at the time of the discovery, Detectives theorize that she might have actually sustained that fatal spine injury by jumping or falling over the embankment.

Wow.

Yeah. Okay. And there is some... That's going to come back. We're going to talk about that a little bit more. There's a Interesting. So according to those who knew her, Laurie had a very chaotic home life, and she hitchhiked very frequently while running away from home. This was not the first time she'd run away. Unfortunately, other than those statements from her friends, there was little evidence or leads to guide the investigation. So as a result, the Sheriff's office turned to the public for help, and a local newspaper offered a $500 reward for information leading to an arrest. The request actually prompted a flurry of tips from the public that turned a case of suspicious circumstances to one of murder. Because one collar claimed to have seen a quote, white van with an off-colored door sometime between December third and December ninth, near the area where Laurie's body was found. The man said he was on his way home from work and noticed the van at the side of the road with a white man behind the wheel. This man said as he turned the corner, he looked in his rear view mirror and saw, quote, two other men walking on either side of a young girl, apparently holding holding her up and leading her.

Oh. According to the collar, the men seemed to be hurrying the girl, and when they reached the back door of the van, they pushed her inside. And I was like, Sir, is this the first time you were telling authorities about this?

Did you just watch this? Like, come on.

I don't know if he called in and reported in, and for some reason it was never recorded. Oh, boy. But he called back and was like, just so he called and said, just so you know, I saw this.

That's awful.

But a short time Later, other witnesses came forward with similar tips, and several callers claimed to have seen Laurie with a, bushy-haired Caucasian man sitting in a truck parked near the area where her body was found. Based on these tips, investigators theorized that Lori had been out walking and was approached by the men in the van who then pushed her into the back of the van and unfortunately stripped her clothes off. In an attempt to escape, investigators believe she likely jumped from the moving vehicle landing at the bottom of the embankment and injuring her neck in the fall, which caused her death. They felt like this would account for the fact that she had been discovered nude but had not been sexually assaulted and suffered no other signs of physical trauma.

That makes sense.

It does make sense because at first, you thought she just fell down an embankment nude. That doesn't make any sense to me.

That was the part that got me. I was like, Yeah, I'm sure she could have fallen, but nude? Why wasn't she wearing- Then you hear the whole theory, and it's like she got away.

Oh, that's awful. But then fell down an embankment, possibly.

And that's why there was no other- Or was pushed down there to incapacitator.

Exactly.

Holy shit. This is gnarly.

It's really gnarly. Like, that's awful.

That is awful.

Yeah, it's awful.

And again, that makes sense. I can see why they put that together.

Exactly. So on December 26, 1972, just one day after the press announced a reward for information leading to an arrest in the hitchhiker murders, two Santa Rosa teenagers discovered two sets of skeleton remains at the foot of an embankment about 60 feet from the road. The remains were those of two teenage girls. However, significant decomposition, made identifying them next to impossible. Neither appeared to have been wearing any clothes or carrying any personal items. And the only evidence at the scene was one earring. Always one earring. Yeah, what's that about? If there's earings, it's just one.

Yeah, there's something to that.

I think so. A set of orange beads and a gold cross necklace. A few days later, investigators used dental records to identify the remains as those of 12-year-old Maureen Sterling and her friend-12 years old? 12-year-old Maureen Sterling and her 13-year-old friend Yvonne Webber. I mentioned them at the beginning.

Holy shit.

Eleven months earlier, they had been missing almost year at this point. On February fourth, the girls' mothers had dropped them off around 7:30 at the Redwood Empire Ice Arena, but neither girl was there when their moms returned to pick them up around 11:00 PM.

Oh, and they're so little.

The girls' disappearance was reported to the Santa Rosa police and the Sheriff's office, who they didn't really treat this the best. They treated the disappearance like these two girls were just run aways, and they were not. Even though Yvonne Webber's stepfather told reporters It was obvious that these girls were not run aways. But because the remains, when they were found, had been reduced to bones, the coroner wasn't able to determine the cause of death.

Oh, that's awful.

I know. Especially, these are little girls.

These are literal girls. It's children.

It's gut-wrenching. But although they couldn't say with certainty that either girl had been murdered, the state in which the remains had been found was definitely suspicious, and the deaths were investigated as homicides. Also, both girls were known to have hitchhiked from time to time, and a friend reported seeing them get into a car at the side of the road near the Ice Arena the last night they were seen around 9:00 PM. So now there was a presumed link between the deaths of Maureen, Yvonne, Kim Allen, and Laurie Corsa. The district attorney told reporters, Although there is no direct evidence of a homicide, we're going to make a total and complete investigation, and it will be handled as if it were a homicide case. Good. They didn't handle it fantastic from the beginning when they did go missing, but at least they came around, I guess.

They came to the conclusion. It was so of the time, too, that attitude. And the place. So of the time, so of the place. A lot of at that time, and again, in that place. When kids went missing, it just wasn't treated the same. No, it wasn't. It was automatically assumed that they'll come back.

Which luckily, in most places, it's different now. Yeah. But investigators started combing through leads and information collected by a juvenile officer at the time that both girls went missing, and also started talking with Maureen and Yvonne's friends and family. In time, they would sift through every lead and talk to every witness they could find. They actually even did polygraph tests on four teenagers, but they passed them. After a few months, they were no closer to finding Maureen and Yvonne's killers or those responsible for the other deaths than they were when the bodies were discovered. Over the course of a year now, someone had murdered at least four young female hitchhikers, with one missing and presumed dead, and somehow they had left zero evidence. None.

That's what's baffling.

Literally nothing. In the cases of Kim, Janette, Lorey, Maureen, and Yvonne, there was a very frustrating lack of clues, and again, almost nothing seemed certain. But there was one thing Santa Rosa detectives had come to believe strongly. There was a serial killer or two operating in Sanoma County, and he'd already killed five girls. In a brutal, horrible way. Brutal, brutal murders. Like the other investigations, detectives on the Sterling and Webber case quickly exhausted the few leads that they had. The most promising lead was provided by one of the girls' school friends that involved Maureen and Yvonne having met a man from Russian River about an hour away. The friend believed that they had hitched a ride to go meet this guy, but police were unable to confirm that such a man even existed. So there wasn't a lot to go off of here. And while the rewards for information had prompted a surprising number of calls and tips, pretty much all of them were nothing calls and not much more than rumors that were just circulating among the junior high and high school students. It was all just he said, she said.

This is so infuriating.

I can't imagine being one of the family members being like, Do you have anything solid to tell me about my young child's death and them just having nothing. Yeah. Like, nothing.

Damn.

By March, leads had started to dry up, and the Sanoma County Sheriff's office and local law enforcement had begun to direct their attention elsewhere. Someone had been killing college girls in Northern California, putting everyone on high alert and distracting from these missing hitchhikers. In April 1973, law enforcement officials arrested one Edmund Kemper for the murders of several women.

Anyone remember that name?

Anyone remember that? But it fucked with our case that we're talking about right now, because for a time, the Kemper case dominated the news and all the resources of Northern California investigators.

I didn't even think about the time period there.

Yeah, it was going on, like, simultaneously. And those who weren't occupied with the Kemper case were consumed with the growing number of drug arrests and busts involving the farms and manufacturing operations that would eventually become a prominent part of the Northern California landscape. With the growing problems of drugs and violent crime in Northern California, the last thing Santa Rosa detectives wanted was another murdered hitchhiker.

Yeah.

But in late July, that is exactly what they got.

In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit but would never be seen alive again, leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott. From WNDY, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Erin and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle in theory, walking through the forensic evidence and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. With over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the GenerationY podcast on the WNDRI app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to GenerationY ad-free right now by joining WNDY Plus.

On July 31st, the nude body of an unidentified young woman was discovered by a dirt bike rider down an embankment on Franz Valley Road, about 4 feet, actually, from where the remains of Maureen Sterling and Yvonne Webber were discovered several months earlier.

So this is, this is a taunt.

Yeah, this is very clear. This is a taunt. In his statement to the press, Sheriff Don, I think it's Strypeake, speculated that the killer was, quote unquote, playing games and taunting officials to catch him by disposing of the body in the same spot where his earlier victims were found. But just like most of the other cases, there was virtually no evidence discovered at the scene, and sadly, no clues as to the girl's identity. And also the brush soil leading down to the embankment didn't appear to have been disturbed, leading investigators to assume that the girl had actually been thrown over the embankment, quote, either by a very large man or by two men because it cleared tall brush. I think we have two men working here.

I am. I am. I think you're right. Just the fact that two bodies now are found next to undisturbed brush. Yeah. You know what I mean? To be on your side here. I think you and I have the same.

Yeah, we looked at each other during one specific thing about a Boshi-haired man, and we'll get there. We will get there. All right, good. So upon completing the autopsy, the coroner determined that the girl had been laying in the brush for about 10 to 12 days, placing her time of death around mid July. Because of her exposure to the elements and the effects of decomposition, the examiner wasn't able to determine whether or not she'd been sexually assaulted. But the only physical trauma on the body, and this is fucking weird, was a small wound on her right ear, as though somebody had tried to pierce her ear. What? And that sticks out to me because three of the seven bodies found in connection with this case were found with one earring beside them that was theirs, but the match was missing.

Like they're collecting one?

Yeah, they're collecting one of the earrings. And it's like, had she recently tried to pierce her ears and given up? Yeah. Maybe. We've all been at sleepovers, I think, where we decided we were going to pierce our ears.

But still strange.

And the fact that it's fresh, like enough where the coroner notices it. And the fact that earrings seem to play a role somewhat in this case.

That's what's throwing me off a little. I'm like, What is the earrings think?

There's something about the earrings to me, definitely.

For sure. I don't think it's just a coincidence. No. That they're only finding one.

I don't think so either. But perhaps more bewildering, though, was the cause of death with this woman, which was identified as strictnein poisoning.

Stricknine?

Yeah. Is it strictnine or strictnine? Stricknine. I thought it was strictnine, too, but when I looked it up, it said neen. But isn't that weird? Yeah. All of a sudden, now we're switching.

What?

The M-O here?

It's almost like they're trying different things or they're... Which lends itself to my theory. Yeah, me too.

Again, we'll get there. But it took almost two weeks, and eventually the body was identified as that of a 15-year-old girl, Caroleyn Davis. She was a runaway from Anderson, a small town about 200 miles north of Santa Rosa. In early February, Caroleyn had left her school in the morning as she always did, but she never actually arrived to school. When they searched her room, her parents found a note that read, Dear Mom, don't worry too much about me. The only thing I'm going to be doing is keeping myself alive. Love, Caroleyn. So she had run away. This is so sad. She actually stayed with her sister for a while before moving on to live with her grandmother in Garberville, just outside of Anderson. But around mid-July, Caroline told her grandmother that she planned to hitchhike down south to visit some friends in Modesto. So her Her mother actually gave her granddaughter a ride to downtown Garberville, where she was going to catch a ride. And that was the last time she was seen hitchhiking a ride at the Highway 101 on-ramp. How awful. Where many of these other girls were seen. This is clearly connected.

Clearly related. The discovery of yet another murdered hitchhiker all but confirmed the presence of a serial killer. So Sonoma County Under Sheriff Robert Hayes told reporters, There's a common denominator, it seems. They were all fairly young, probably all hitchhiking. They weren't shot or stabbed. They were all nude, and there were drugs found in at least four of the five victims.

Hmm. Interesting.

Right? Now, unfortunately, despite their best efforts, no further evidence surfaced, and leads were sparse. Investigators thought that they'd caught a break in the case in October when Waukeen Cordona, a 22-year-old Santa Rosa bartender, was arrested for a similar sexual assault and made statements linking himself to the hitchhiker murder. But the following day, he was given a polygraph exam to determine his guilt, and he passed, which effectively ruled him out as a suspect at that point in time.

But we all know.

Hot dog, trench coat.

You can't just go off of that.

I have to assume that there was probably Probably a little bit more.

I was going to say there has to be something, but then again, it's like... But it was the early '70s. At the time, yeah. Polygraphs can be interesting. Definitely. When used in conjunction with lots of other massive pieces of evidence or a full-blown confession.

That's exactly it. It has to be in- Got to be more. Hand in hand with a couple, even a couple other things, in my opinion.

It's got to be a part of several pieces. It can't just be the only thing.

An amalgamation, if you will. Exactly. But after six months with no leads, investigators became even more frustrated when in late December, another body of a young woman was discovered in the France Valley on December 28th. The nude hog-tied body of the young woman was discovered half-submerged under a log by two teenagers boating down the creek, and the coroner estimated she'd been dead about a week. Unlike the previous bodies, which were left in a fairly accessible location, this location was very difficult to reach, obviously, and it took detectives about two hours to make their way to where the body was discovered. Given that she'd been found half-submerged, there was no way to know whether her killer had actually put her in this location where she was found or if she had been put in the creek and drifted down to where she was found. Okay. A preliminary autopsy showed that she had been strangled. Strangled.

Interesting. Interesting and horrible, but- Awful. Interesting because of what we think I believe both of our theories might lead to.

I think so, too. In this one, these are all so, so sad, but this one is also... It just hits you in a different way. It took about two weeks, but eventually the body was identified from fingerprints as Theresa Walsh, a 23-year-old single mother from Humboldt. She was hitching back home for Christmas to be with, I think, her two-year-old son.

Oh, goodness.

The identification was confirmed by a missing person's report filed by Theresa's mother on New Year's Eve. According to her family, Theresa had left her home in Northern California a week or so before Christmas, and she was just hitchhiking to Malibu to see some friends. She was last seen on December 22nd when she left her friends, saying she was planning to hitchhike back to her family's home in Garberville, interestingly enough, hoping to make it there by Christmas. The last time she spoke with her mother, Goldie, she told her, I'm coming home for Christmas. And just the fact that she's a mother is so sad. And her baby was only two, I believe.

Two years old. Never going to know their mother.

And the fact that that family had to spend Christmas without their daughter, without their mother. They're sister.

It's just- It's right before, too. I always think of that when these things happen, right before a major holiday.

How do you wake up that morning?

Especially a family holiday. How do you ever celebrate that holiday? And you You have to.

You have to wake up Christmas morning for that baby and be present for that baby and make it the best.

That's why these people are very impressive. These victims' families that have to go through that and then have to pull it together for kids in the family or someone else in the family.

It's remarkable.

I can't even fathom it.

No, I can't either. I don't know that I'd be able to.

And it's wild that there's just like such... I mean, we always talk about what fucking monster's in the world. But it's like that they choose the holidays to take someone away from their family. Not that it's ever a good time to take somebody away from their family. No, of course not. But it's like that extra... It's an extra horrible layer on top of it to do it during Christmas. It's an added way to fuck with people because these people are like, you just said, Monsters.

Yeah, you got to be deeply fucked. And then you just go sit with your family knowing that you just took someone away from theirs. That's heinous.

So gross.

Now, once again, investigators found themselves at a loss for leads or evidence, but this time they called the FBI for assistance. Thank goodness. Hoping the organization could analyze the rope that was used to bind Theresa and point them in a direction. Interesting. Now, unfortunately, the analysis of the rope proved useless because according to the FBI, the rope was too common to be able to trace it.

I really thought. I know you said it was unsolved, but I was like, there's something inside of me that's like, no, tell me who it is.

Because this isn't even one of those cases Obviously, we cover cases sometimes that are unsolved, but it's like, clearly this person did it.

They don't have anybody in this one.

We have theories, and we have a lot of theories, realistically. Yeah. But, and I personally think that our shared one that I think we're sharing currently is the strongest.

I think it's a very interesting one, and I think it's strong.

Obviously, when we post, I want to hear your guys's theories. Like, what do you think?

Yeah, because like we said, this one is wide open. Wide open, yeah. It would be interesting to hear what anybody else thinks.

Who knows? Maybe you'll have a theory that I didn't cover here. Yeah. By January 1974, the reward for information leading to an arrest had actually reached about $6,500, which in 2024 would be $41,000. Damn. But it did little to encourage new leads or information. Weeks turned into months, and the story slipped from the front pages to the back, and eventually it just stopped appearing in the press altogether. Wow. And by the end of the year, investigators had no new information, they were no closer to catching the killer. But with no new bodies discovered, it appeared as though the Hitchhiker murders had finally come to a very sudden end. Because no one has ever been arrested for the murders and there's never been a strong suspect, it's obviously impossible to say who is and isn't a victim of the Santa Rosa Hitchhiker killer, or whether the seven previously identified young women were even killed by the same person or people.

Wow, interesting. What year was this last one?

It was right at the end of 1973. It was the last couple of weeks of 1973.

Interesting.

Now, other cases like that of Ed Kemper illustrated how killers and violent predators frequently victimized hitchhikers. Hikers, since they were typically willing to get into a stranger's car without hesitation. Really, that's exactly why it's entirely possible that there are other victims to the Santa Rosa hitchhiker murders who, because of lack of evidence or just the passage of time, can't officially be linked to the case. In July 1979, hikers in, I think it's Rinkin Valley, discovered the the skeletal remains of a young woman in a duffle bag about 100 yards from where Laurie Kersh's body was discovered in late 1972. The victim was described as being somewhere between the ages of 16 and 21 and 5 foot 3 inches tall with red hair and wearing hard contact lenses. She'd been also hog tired. Both of her arms were fractured, and she's actually believed to have died sometime between 1973 and 1975. And they arrived at that based actually on the fact that she wore those hard contact lenses. They had recently been pushed out of favor and phased out, excuse me, in favor of soft plastic lenses. Okay. But other than the contact lenses, the clothes line uses bindings and the remnants of the bag itself.

There was no evidence at the scene, and she still remains unidentified to this day. Wow. Initially, Finally, investigators suspected that the remains could have been those of Jeanette Kamahili, who's one of the only victims who's believed to be linked to the hitchhiker murders that has actually never been found. But once the race of this body was established to be white, Jeanette was ruled out because she was Polynesian. Oh, okay. Now, because of the victim profile, younger woman, and the circumstances and location in which the body was discovered, this specific Jane Doe is assumed to be connected to the other victims. It was that they found her much later. Then in December of 1978, 15-year-old Kari Graham and 14-year-old Francine Trimble, two teenagers from Forestville, California, they told friends that they were planning to hitchhike to Santa Rosa to attend a party, and they were last seen hitchhiking a ride at a gas station in Forestville. Francine told her mom that they were just going to go Christmas shopping, but when they didn't return, her mom became very concerned and filed a missing person's report. It took six to find them. But six months later, the badly decomposed remains of the two teenage girls were discovered in a wooded area of Willets, which is a rural town about 80 miles north of Santa Rosa.

Interesting. The only evidence found at the scene was one earring shaped like a bird. What the fuck? The earrings have something to do with this. There's something there. If these girls had earrings in, one was taken as a trophy, always.

So this, whoever this is has earrings?

100 %. Has or had. Yeah. In 2015, the remains were identified, actually using modern methods and were confirmed to be the remains of Graham and Trimble. And the earring was identified by Francine's sister as jewelry that she herself had given Francine, but the match was never discovered. Unfortunately, given how little evidence was collected in these cases and the already tenuous connection between the victims, the list of other potential victims is very long and could reasonably include any young women who disappeared while hitchhiking in the Santa Rosa and Sonoma County area between approximately 1970 and 1975, they think. Yeah, that makes sense. I think it could potentially go beyond that.

Yeah.

Now, let's talk about suspects. Although there have always been serial killers operating across the United States, obviously, we're here talking about them all the time. Unfortunately, that is happening. Yeah, unfortunately. The concept of the serial killer didn't enter the public consciousness until the 1970s. So this was a very new concept while this was all happening. And that was when law enforcement agencies started working with mental health professionals to better understand the profiles of these psychotic killers. But Americans went from being pretty unaware of dangerous predators to then being thrust into a world where they were seemingly surrounded by these deranged killers. And especially in California, this was a period of time where some of the nation's most notorious serial killers were caught. Yeah. Bundy, Ed Kemper, Charles Manson, excuse me. This is all to say, when it came to who could be responsible for the Santa Rosa hitchhiker murders, Bay Area and Northern California residents had serial killers on the brain, which may have heavily influenced their theories. But I do still think serial killer.

Yeah, I think so, too. I mean, there's too many...

Too many similarities.

I feel like it's very similar. And of course, it's like a lot of these unfortunate fuckers had similar means and motives. Emos sometimes had similar victim profiles that they went after, a certain demographic that they went after. Absolutely, you could say.

100%.

It could really go either way. But I don't think it's crazy to look at serial killer here.

No. And I think the way that some of these bodies were found, where some of these bodies were found. The earrings. The earrings. I can't get past the earrings. It's so strange. Because it's too strange It is.

It is. You don't just lose one earring.

No.

And like, over and over. Over and over. That many people just losing an earring in the- And being found with one.

Yeah.

It's too coincidental. I don't know what the... What the odds would be for that, but it's got to be astronomical. Somebody do it.

Yeah. But officially, I could definitely not. But officially, there had never been a strong suspect for the killings. Like I was just saying, investigators can't even conclusively say that all these victims were even killed by the same person. So of course, that has led to a great deal of speculation, mostly from amateur slews like ourselves, and included various high-profile serial killers known to have been operating in the vicinity at the time. Among these are the Zodiac killer, Arthur Lee Allen, who is actually also one of the prime Zodiac suspects. Ted Bundy, Kenneth Bianchi, and Angela Buono are my top suspects for this.

It's so funny when you brought that up because I thought it almost immediately. I was like, The ages are what make me think this was their beginning.

Absolutely. Because I think they started it around... They, quote, unquote, started around 1979.

Or actually '77.

'77? Yeah.

It might have been even earlier than that. I know '77, they were in the midst.

That's where their first identified victim. It was happening, at least. So who's to say that it didn't start earlier and they just didn't ever admit to these ones, again, because a lot of these are younger girls.

Well, what's interesting is they have a very wide birth of age. Their victims go from 12 to about 28, I want to say.

Our youngest here is 12.

Is 12. Two of the victims were friends. One of them was 12-year-old Dolores Dolly Sapita. She was 12. And then her friend was Sonja Johnson. She was 14.

And look at that. Maureen and Yvonne, 12 and 13. Friends hitchhiking together. It's very similar. And then the fact that many of these girls were strangled, and obviously, some of them, it was hard to say, but we can assume they may have been strangled, the ones that were not positive.

And as we know about the Hillside Stranglers, they were called that, but they did a lot of fucked up shit to their victims. And they experimented a lot. They did a lot of... They were messy. They were unorganized. And the fact that they experimented a lot is interesting. And it feels like they were going after if this theory did ever prove to be true, which obviously we're just speculating.

Theorizing and speculating, of course.

It would seem like maybe they were going after younger victims first to see what works, essentially.

Right. Like thinking it may have been easier.

Yeah, I think.

And then also think they drove around in a van, didn't they?

So I think they... I know they drove a car. I know that was generally it. I don't remember if there was a truck involved or anything.

And most of these women were spotted in vans and a truck.

But as we speak of this, I don't think Kenneth Bianca left Rochester, New York, to come to Los Angeles until mid '70s, '75s, '76. Oh, shit. So now that I'm thinking about it, I'm like, I don't think that was.

It's not that strong.

Yeah, I don't think it's as strong as we thought it was initially.

I was so convinced this whole way through.

But yeah, because I think they started out after he moved. Now that I'm thinking of the timeline, I was so sure at first. I was too. I thought of the timeline, I was like, wait a second, that doesn't- Well, and then did they get their DNA at some point?

Because DNA was found on some of these bodies. So then you have to think that if they were in the system, it would have been compared.

Kenneth Bianca is still hanging out in prison right now. So it's like they got his DNA. They'd be able to have his DNA. Yeah.

Well, live theorizing, that doesn't pan out.

Shit. Yeah. That was like live in real-time. We were like, wait a second. This whole way through.

We were like, well, we went through the steps. There you go. We had a theory and we asked ourselves questions and said, fuck, no. Oh, couldn't have been them.

And we put it against the realities and it doesn't match up.

Well, and the other thing is, too, you would assume that when their shit was gone through, that they would have found these earrings. Because whoever- That's what I would imagine. Whoever this was kept those fucking earrings. Took those earrings.

And I agree. That was the thing that was sticking with me, too, was I was like, Where are those earrings? And that they didn't... That wasn't part of their lay their exploits. No. That they didn't take an earring. That was never something that was found at their crime scenes. And so I was like, would they have stopped that?

We were really going for that one. And then all of a sudden we were like, actually, no.

When we weren't thinking of the years, it made a lot of sense. But then thinking of the years and going through it, it's like, oh, wait a second. The fact that he didn't look there. That didn't line up. Yeah.

It doesn't line up. All right. We'll go to our next one. Yeah. I don't personally feel strongly about this one, but the theory that the Zodium Zodiac killer might be responsible for the murders was first put forth by Sonoma County Sheriff, Dawn. Again, I think it's Strapik, Strapiki. In 1975, he put this theory forward. A few months after the discovery of Theresa Walsh's body, he told reporters, The last messages we got from the Zodiac indicated he was going to continue his killings but bury them. And he bragged about collecting, and this is a quote, slaves for his use in the next world, which is heinous.

Eew.

Yeah, he's a horrible human. The sheriff's statement about the Zodiac immediately received a great deal of attention from the press, and the sheriff's office was flooded with phone calls and requests for comment, which the Sheriff happily provided. During a subsequent press conference, he told reporters, This evil is a lone killer, perhaps a believer in witchcraft, claiming victims who will serve him, and again, he says, as slaves in the afterlife. However, while the press may have been excited for new information on the Zodiac and the Santa Rosa killings, few You other law enforcement officials agreed with the Sheriff's assertion, and eventually he just abandoned that theory altogether.

Yeah, that one didn't hit.

That one, yeah. That didn't hit.

There was really nothing to that. That was just strange and fucked up. It didn't hit. Yeah.

When it came to identifying a suspect or even putting together a profile. Things were incredibly complicated, though. The killer or killers, as we know, left very little evidence at the scene. While some of the victims were seen getting into cars with men, no one ever managed to get a good, like a really good look at the drivers. And further complicating matters was that as far as they could tell, investigators never found the murder sites. These were just where the bodies were found.

I was going to say, and it's pretty clear that it wasn't happening where they were found. So where the fuck did this happen?

Where were they killed?

That's even more chilling. When they can't find the murder sites and they don't know where it happened, for some reason, that just gets me.

No, that's very scary. Because it's no idea. Such an incomplete piece of the puzzle that- And a massive piece. I was just like, the piece that you really need to finish or start putting other parts together. Yeah. In total, Sheriff's detectives and investigators with the Santa Rosa police investigated over 300 possible suspects, But none were ever very seriously considered to be viable. Damn. By the late 1990s and early 2000s, investigation techniques had obviously changed considerably, offering new hopes to victims' family that the killer might finally be caught, killer or killers. Among those was Laurie Kersa's brother, Larry, who had come to believe that his sister could have been a victim of the notorious serial killer Ted Bundy. Bundy confessed to killing, obviously, as we know, at least 27 women and girls, and was known to have spent time in the Santa Rosa area in the early 1970s. Robert Keppel, one of the detectives who helped capture and interview Bundy in the 1970s, said, Bundy's definitely a good suspect. The killings in Santa Rosa would fit his methods. He spent time in the area, and I'm sure he started killing well before. But local law enforcement, on the other hand, felt like the focus on Bundy was misplaced.

Lieutenant Steve Brown from the Sanoma County Sheriff's office said, The feeling was that one person committed the killings, and Bundy was looked at, but I always thought it must have been a utility worker or a postal worker, someone familiar with the area. Eventually, he was completely rolled out because, according to a spokesperson from the Sheriff's office, and this is a quote, All of Bundy's girls heads were crushed. We didn't have anything like that. Okay. Which is somewhat true. He was a blunt force guy. Yeah. Not necessarily a strangler. But it's like, I don't know if you can abandon it altogether. Was he always? Because this would have been his very early days of operating.

And as we know, Bundy is capable of killing anything, really. And he's capable of killing someone as young as 12. 100 %. Because he has a 12-year-old victim. So I don't know if I would discount. I don't think I would discount it. I'm not sold, but I'm not not taking it seriously.

That's where I sit, pretty much.

Yeah. Ted Bundy is one of His first victims in Idaho was a hitchhiker. And then there are several because there's a lot of people who from that time period, and obviously you can't believe everybody, but- No, of course not. A lot of people have stories about coming in contact with Ted Bundy. Oh, yeah. Tons. And many of them line up with the right time frame. They line up with the right space. I'm sure a lot of people are telling the truth because he was everywhere. Yeah. He was very much everywhere. Yeah. And a lot of people have stories about a couple of people have had stories about being picked up by him.

Like, hitchhiking.

So it's not out of the realm of possibility. And it is at that point, it was the easiest route for them to take. Yeah. You know, it just it's a a convenience thing at that time.

Yeah, that does make sense. So I wouldn't, I'm not, I'm not totally out on that. We're not not sold on that one. Now, while theories about high profile killers are most likely the result of their temporary spotlight in the public eye, there have been at least two suspects who were decidedly more compelling. In the mid-1980s, Sonoma County coroner Tom Seab gave an interview with the Press Democrat, in which he indicated the most likely suspect to have already passed away. He didn't give the reporter a name. This is interesting. But he described the individual as a, quote, middle-aged married man who died in a car accident in the mid-1970s. He was referring to 41-year-old Santa Rosa Jr. College creative writing teacher, Frederick Manali, I believe it is, who died in a head-on car crash in the summer of 1976, right around the time that the killings completely stopped, very abrupt.

Okay.

And remember, two of our victims were were students at the Santa Rosa Junior College.

Okay.

Following his death, several alarming things were found among his possessions, including, and this is heinous, a sadomasochistic drawing of his former student, Kim Allen, our first victim.

Okay. Hello.

Mm-hmm. Now, as a result of this discovery and his interest in very violent pornography and relationship with at least one victim. Many have considered him a strong suspect, including myself.

That's the guy, as far as I'm concerned. That just sold me. Really? Completely. There's too much connection there. That's a lot of connection. The drawing about a victim. Very, very interesting. Working at the place where some of the victims went to school.

I would be interested.

Being into violent pornography, dying the year that it all stopped.

It's a lot.

Who the fuck is related to this guy? Go find those earrings.

I know. Go find them.

Those earrings are somewhere.

Do some familial DNA and find those fucking earrings.

That shit is, I want to find where this dude lived. I want to...

This is the guy. That is my main thing, and I've said it 45 100 times throughout this. It's the earrings. There's somewhere. You will find those earrings and boom.

It'll all come together. Boom. They've got to be somewhere.

Now, in 2022, I agree. I think that's the strongest one so But in 2022, it seemed like there may have been some movement in the case when police were able to use DNA to link the 1996 unsolved murder of Michelle Marie Veal to a man named Jack Alexander Boken. Unfortunately, Michelle was raped. She suffered multiple skull fractures due to blunt force trauma and a broken neck. Oh, jeez. Her body was found alongside Stoney Point Road near Cotadi by construction workers. Wow. During her attack, though, she fought incredibly hard. Actually, that's how they were able to identify by her killer. There was one sample of scraping with his DNA inside of it. That's how they got him. He had a long, very violent history that included, according to the Press Democrat, kidnapping, kidnapping with the intent to commit rape, rape of a victim incapable of consent, rape by force or fear, mayhem, aggravated mayhem, two counts of oral copulation with a person under 14 years of age, false imprisonment, and attempted murder. Holy shit. So this motherfucker is fully capable of all the evils that we just spoke about.

Yeah.

And a spokesperson for the Sanoma County Sheriff's office said they were looking into him in connection with the hitchhiker murders because of his violent history and the fact that his parents owned a home near Santa Rosa during the time of the killings.

Okay, that's interesting, too.

But aside from that announcement in 2022 that he was being looked into, I haven't seen any update. And unfortunately, we won't be getting a confession because he died in prison in December of '22.

See? And I'm still stuck on the coincidental death of the last guy. The death happening. Frederick. The year that- That everything stopped.

Yeah, I'm still stuck on that one. That's always interesting to me. When somebody who's been suspected dies the year that everything stops, that's highly suspect.

They die or they get- They got put in prison or something that year for something else unrelated, and it all stops.

It's fucking absolutely bonkers. That would have to be very, very wildly coincidental that he had a heinous drawing of one of the victims.

Okay, that's the thing That's the thing that's hard to get past. I can't get past that. It's very hard to get past. Again, someone do the odds for that. I think that's the guy.

You have to wonder, Kim Allen was holding a, it's called a soy barrel. I'm like, would you find that in his belongings and all of these women's clothing. Where did all of these women's clothing end up? These women and girls.

Well, that's the other thing. I'm like, where did this guy live at the time? You may not know this. I don't know. I just mean, someone, figure out where this guy lived.

I mean, he had to have lived in the area if he's a teacher at the San Rosa Junior College.

Where the hell did he live? Has the thing been searched thoroughly? Are we looking for false floorboards? Are we looking for basements? Are we looking for addicts? Are we looking for crawl spaces in the walls? Are you digging around that house? Trying to find things. You got to find something. Shit is there. I'm telling you, if he did it.

I think that's the problem. I think these people are a little bit half-ass looked into. You know what I mean? Yeah. But our last suspect, finally, in 2024, documentary filmmaker Skye Borgman released a four-part series in which Cierra Barter, a young woman from Northern California, comes to believe that her deceased step-grandfather, Jim Mordechai, was the Santa Rosa hitchhiker killer. According to the documentary, he had, excuse me, she had heard many stories from family members about her step grandfather being a violent predator who would physically, psychologically, and sexually abuse the young woman in the family and was accused by other young women of similar assault and abuse. And moreover, after speaking to many of the women in her family and going through some of his remaining effects, Barter comes to suspect that he may I have also been this Zodiac killer, citing a sheriff's earlier theory to support her beliefs, Sheriff's trip key there.

You might be losing me, but I'm still here.

As soon as we get to the, I think he's also the Zodiac killer, it gets a little bit much. Yeah, it gets a little murky. She claims to have turned the information over to investigators with the Sheriff's office, and nothing has come of her involvement as of yet. Okay. But we have been fixated on those earrings. She says in his possession was a jewelry box full of What? I have two pair of earrings, like mixed-matched earrings, that nobody in the family could account for. But unfortunately, they gave them away.

Where did they give them?

I think to a goodwill or something.

Go back to that goodwill. You got to find out what the fuck's going on.

I literally have a microphone, but I'm speaking into my water bottle right now. She is. Go to the goodwill and find those fucking earrings. Go to there. She She specifically cites one of the earrings. There was an orange pair. That was a single orange one that was found, and she specifically cites it.

Come on, everybody.

Like, please.

I need those earrings.

I totally get it. I give shit to Goodwill all the time. Absolutely. You find something that's sus, hold on to that shit. Just hold on to that. Just for future reference. I'm not mad.

Yeah, no. Just for future reference. It happens. You know? Hmm. Interesting.

Interesting.

Until I see those earrings, I need the earrings. I'm still on Frederick. Frederick? Yeah. I think Frederick is...

I think he's the strongest of the suspects listed. I think he's the strongest of the suspects listed. Definitely. But I need to see the earrings in his possession. Interesting. Now, despite the many high profile and no-name individuals that were connected to the case at one time or another, the murders of Kim Allen, Laurie Cursa, Yvonne Webber, Caroline Davis, Theresa Walsh, and potentially, Janette Kamahili still remain unsolved to this day. That's awful. According to the Sanoma County Sheriff's office, all cases are still active and under investigation. There's still some hope that the person or people responsible for these brutal, brutal killings will be captured and prosecuted.

I'm glad that it's still actively under investigation because I feel like we can figure something out here.

I totally think so. Like I said, many of these bodies were found with DNA. I mean, one of them, they have semen that was found on the body.

It's like we can do something with this.

That's huge. We have so much going on with familial DNA and the genealogy stuff. There's got to be some way to find some relative who knows who this was or use their DNA in some way.

Or at least start weeding through the potential suspects. Start thinning that pile out a little bit. Right.

And look at Frederick. Like you said, look at one of his relatives. Just take a look. Just to see the odds.

Just take a look because he had some stuff going on.

I need to see this case. Just the amount of people that were killed, the ages of the people killed. The fact that somebody was killed. Theresa was killed right before Christmas, just on her way back to see her baby and her mom. No, it's so brutal. I need to see this case solved.

And I think we could.

I think we could. And I'm glad that we covered it because maybe it will stir up some shit.

I need something that gets sparked. You know? Yeah.

But in the meantime, we hope you keep listening. And we hope you... Keep it... Weird. But not so weird that when you find a box of earrings, you give it your goodwill because that's totally sauce.

That's so bad. Just keep them.

I'm not mad. If you like Morbid, you can listen early and ad-free right now by joining WNDYRI+ in the WNDYRI app or on Apple podcasts. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wndyri. Com/survey.