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I want to talk about most people. Let's say they have 10 pounds to look. Most people in middle age or people who are just naturally or they are taking care of themselves. They are working out. They are watching what they eat. They're doing all the basics, right? And they still have 10 pounds, 5, 10 pounds. To me, that's the hardest. That's the hardest part to lose. That's the hardest part to focus I think it's easier when you have 30 pounds to lose, right? And you're not doing everything right. It's for the people who are doing everything right, and they still can't lose that last 10 or they've gained it because of circumstance, just life, age, whatever. What advice or what can people do to finetune and to tweak their lifestyle habits to lose that last 5 or 10 pounds?

That's a really good question because I know I've worked with lots of clients, and that is a really frustrating position to be in because it's not like, like you said, like, oh, I got to lose 30 pounds. I'm not exercising. I'm eating like garbage. It's like, I'm doing all the stuff.

Why? And really doing this stuff, not lying about it.

What's going on? There's two ways to look at this or two avenues you could look at in terms of the solution for this. One is to work harder at what you're doing, and the other one is to work smarter at what you're doing. In this particular scenario. Now, if I'm talking to the average person who's not exercising, it's work harder. All right, get up and move. You're not doing anything.

We're not talking about that person.

When I'm talking about this person, the answer is almost never to work harder. They're already doing that. They're already pushed. In fact, they've probably already pushed that button to work harder so many times and are frustrated because they're getting minimal results. It's almost always they're not efficient enough. They're not effective enough with the time that they spending working out, or they're not effective enough with their diet or their sleep, or there's a piece that's missing there. It usually is their workout. Usually what they're doing with their workout is they're doing more and more and more, trying to burn more and more calories, and they're not focused enough on teaching their body to burn more calories on its own. They're not focused enough on... It's like this. It's like, okay, I'm making so much money, okay? And I'm working 60 hours a week, and I want to become wealthy. Do I work 100 hours a week? Okay, now what? Now I'm stuck. How do I keep making more money? Or I could say, is there a way I could take the money that I'm making and invest it in a way so that it makes more money for me?

So that's how you want to think when you're at this point. When you're at this point here where you've got that last 10 pounds and you're doing all this work, don't think, How much more can I do? Think, How can I do this in a way that's much more effective? And one of the most effective possible things you could do, especially when it comes to getting leaner, is to build some muscle. Build some muscle. Because muscle is money in… It's like invested money. It burns calories for you. It makes the fat loss easier because it speeds up your metabolism. So typically, when I look at somebody's routine, I'll take their total workout and I'll say, Okay, how much time are you devoted to workouts that don't build muscle? Let's take that away. Let's devote it more towards building muscle. Or maybe you're working out so much that your body can't build muscle because you're overtraining. Let's cut some of that, give your body some rest, feed you a little bit more protein, and see if we could build some muscle. Then what happens is you start to get compounding effects. Sal said, I'm working out five days a week, but four days a week if it's running, one day a week is lifting weights.

He said, Lift the weights three days a week and only run twice a week. Lift it. Yeah, let me do that. Okay, nothing's happening yet, but I'm feeling stronger. I'm feeling stronger. Oh, wait a minute. I think I'm starting to get leaner. Oh, wow, look, this is starting to accelerate. As the muscle comes on the body, you get the compounding effects of getting leaner. In those cases, it's almost... And that's just one example, and I gave it an example that's the most common, I would say. But in most cases, I'll look at someone's workout, and they're either doing too much or they're doing the wrong workouts, in which case I'll either scale it back or change their workouts to make them more efficient, more time-efficient.

More efficient. But that goes back to the whole thing that you said earlier, right? You're going to do the thing you like the most, and the you don't like, you're not going to want to do. So it's about quality of life, too, right? Yes. If someone is someone who doesn't love to lift heavy weight, and they really love tennis and dancing and cardio, right? They're going to go do that. So it's better to do that than to something that you... Then versus doing nothing.

Well, what you're talking about, I think, is the best answer, which is, we get this question sometimes. It's like, I haven't found a career that I love, or how do I... Because people will say, Oh, you guys love what you do so much. The key is to do what you love. That way you never work a day in your life. No, the key is to learn how to love what you do. That's the key. If you can do that, then you're doing great. In this particular example, okay, I want to lose this last 10 pounds, but I love dance, and that's how I work out. Sal says, I need to lift more weights, but I don't want to lift more weights. I like to do dance. Learn to love your body the the way it is. It's the, I want my cake and eat it, too type of deal. I get that. I get that we want everything. But I think many times, and again, especially in this category of people that we're talking about, because I think fitness fanatics in this category can be especially harsh with their self-criticisms. I can't tell you how many times, Jen, people are like, Oh, I can't lose that extra 10 pounds.

And I look at them and I'm like, You look amazing. I don't think you see what other people see. I think you might be a little harsh on yourself. Learn to love and accept the body that you have, and learn to love and accept the way that you enjoy working out. And okay, so you don't have an extra quarter inch on your arms if you're a guy, or you don't have that Fine, you're not 15 % body fat, but maybe you're 17 %, but you're doing all this amazing stuff. I think it's probably better long term for long term happiness, which is, I mean, what else could you possibly want but that, right? To just be happy with what you're doing and the way you look.

Easier said than done, speaking. Look at you, right? You know why I shake my head when you say that?

Yeah. Let me ask you this. You're in the fitness space, okay? You know our space very well. Some of the most fit-looking, ripped people, you probably find some of the hardest, most challenging body image issues.

I want to say that that's why I'm asking these questions for a No, I love that. No, because I feel like we are the hardest and most critical. Because you've trained so much that you notice every nuance and see every imperfection. But most people aren't in the category of fanatical fitness people, right? Where it's like you and I, where we do it a lot. We've been doing it for our whole life. And so we notice this, this, this nook, this cranny, how this can be better, how this I'm talking about people who maybe not at that level, even maybe above average in activity, who are struggling, who are doing all the weight lifting and who are doing all those things and still not getting a result that they want. How much of it is not training just on nutrition? Are there key factors people should be focusing on that they're not? I'm a big, like you, I believe in protein is super important for building muscle. What's your take on protein that's not animal protein and what some key tricks that people can do on the nutrition side that can help with fat loss?

Okay, so nutrition is a great topic because it's by far the most nuanced and it's got the greatest degree of individual variance. And here's why. First off, now, there are some general truths with diet, so I don't want to be like, It's all up in the air. No, there's some general truths, and we'll get to those. But when we're talking about nutrition and diet, let's dive into why it's so nuanced and there's such a massive individual variance. Well, number one, biologically, we're all very different. I have a microbiome that's quite unique to my body. Physiologically, I don't necessarily react and respond to food the same way as the next person. What do you mean? So I may eat something that maybe affects my digestion poorly, whereas for them it feels okay, or maybe it causes a spike in insulin with me, but to the next person, maybe not so much. Maybe if food gives me a little bit more energy, gives them a little less energy. This one makes me a little more full. Maybe for this other person, it doesn't work so well for satiety. So there's all that. But then let's add in a huge factor, which is the psychological effects and attachments and connections to food.

Like, What is food? Yeah, it's proteins, fats, carbs, and calories. Is that all that food is? No. The top 10 reasons why people eat have nothing to do with fueling their body with proteins, fats, and carbs. It has, usually It has usually to do with enjoyment, celebration, morning, anxiety, stress, boredom, emotional.

Boredom is a big one.

Yes. It could be, I eat this food because traditionally, this is what I ate when I was a I have attachment to this particular thing, or I don't like that because one time I got sick and now I don't like it anymore when I eat that or whatever. So food is extremely complex when you connect it to the person. And you have to consider that when you're trying to talk about what's going to work best for me, what's going to be the best diet for me. Now, I can talk about what studies say it's true that protein produces the most satiety in the body, meaning it'll fill you up the fastest and keep full the longest. It's really good for maintaining your calories. Protein is essential, meaning you have to consume it. Your body can't make essential amino acids. You have to eat them. Fat is also essential, meaning there's certain essential fatty acids you have to consume, otherwise, you You'll fail to thrive. Carbohydrate is not essential. You never have to eat a single carbohydrate. That doesn't mean that's ideal, though. Carbohydrates need to be consumed by a lot of people to have an ideal diet, to give them the best energy, the best feel, that stuff.

You don't want to over eat. That's a general rule. Eating too much of anything is bad for you. In fact, eating the right amount negates many the negative effects of certain foods. So like sugar, if your calories are low, sugar doesn't have as bad of an effect, not nearly as bad of an effect on the body. Same thing with certain fats. You want to eat in a way to where you have, you develop a good relationship with food. That's a general truth. If you're constantly reaching for food to blunt emotions, or if you're using food like a drug, or if you eat mindlessly or without presence, that can be an issue. Studies will I know this. If you eat food in front of the TV or in front of your phone, you'll consume 10 to 15 % more calories. Absolutely.

Just on average. It's also habitual, right? Because you're used to eating this at that time. You're used to eating this when you watch TV. It's like changing those habits.

Yes. This is going to fly in. I think this might be controversial, but I'll back it up. I think it's very true. Your body knows how to eat healthy. It knows how to eat in a balanced, healthy way. The problem is we're so disconnected from our bodies, and we're so disconnected from understanding all of the values of food from an awareness standpoint that we don't know how to listen to those signals. So the path to Healthy eating starts with education, proteins, fats, carbs, calories. What's the right amount for my body from this cognitive standpoint? What's the right amount of protein? And then from there, it's awareness. What foods make me feel good? Which ones give me the best digestion? Which ones affect my skin the best? Which ones make me feel good? Which ones make me feel bad? Which ones do I reach for when I'm anxious, sad, or stressed? What foods are hard for me to stop eating? Bring awareness around that stuff, and then you can start to develop a more intuitive style of eating. For me, for example, I crave well-cooked vegetables when my digestion is off. I crave them. I didn't start that way.

It started with me becoming aware of my digestion's off. If I eat well-cooked vegetables, it tends to fix my digestion. I started doing that. And then eventually, I developed this behavior where that's what I want when my digestion is off. So that's the path towards sustainable, long-term healthy eating. I will add one thing. If you're looking for a body that looks good, quote unquote, looks good, just try to be healthy because chasing health results in a body that looks healthy, and that usually looks good. If you chase looking good, you'll oftentimes sacrifice health, in which case then you stop looking good. You can see this with people who are body obsessed. At some point, they can't take enough substances, they can't do enough plastic surgeries, and everything starts to fall apart, or their health goes poorly, and then forget all the looks. It's really a good North Star, right? It's a good guiding principle. It's like, Okay, how do I optimize my health with my food? What does that mean? I feel good. I feel healthy. I've got good digestion. I sleep well. My skin feels good. I have good energy. If you aim towards that, that'll point you in the right direction most of the time, versus, What's going to make me look ripped?

What's going to make me look good? Because oftentimes, that body obsession tends to lead us towards sacrificing our health, and then we end up with nothing.