The Around the NFL podcast. Release the tape, Sprank. From the Chris Wesley podcast studio. Everybody wants it. Why won't you just get the people what they want. Don't have it. It's around the NFL. I am Dan Hansen. Got heroes here. Greg Rosenthal, Mark Sesler, and back in the fourth chair, the dude, Patrick Claybon. What's up, bud?

What's up, guys? Good to be here.

Good to be here with you. It's great. Good to have you. Connie was supposed to be back this week, but she got pulled into a type of nefarious Park Avenue event. Why is it nefarious?

What is she? She's hosting some mysterious event in the Big Apple.

If it's costing our show a Connie Fox Wednesday, it's nefarious to me.

Yeah, it's not costing it.

What?

Well, sure. We've got a whole different show, Claybon Wednesday.

Well, let me transition to that, Sal. Mr. Contrarian? Yes, We don't have Connie. But the fact that we can have Patrick here is even-Oh, well, thanks, guys. What a blessing. Not that you were a backup, but we announced previously, Colleen would be here. It'd be weird just all of a sudden, Patrick is here instead.

We've got an incredible stable, and we're versatile, and Patrick proves that.

We keep it pretty tight in terms of who's in the regular fourth chair. It's a hallowed spot.

Playing the role of Colleen Wolf today is Patrick Cleveland.

We do need a Patrick theme song.

I think it's time.

Do we have any? Have any been sent in? Do we have any Patrick? I don't have any Patrick. You can put out a formal request. Here's a formal request.

Get up our vibrant Gmail account.

What is the Gmail account? Is it the ATN?

I think it's the ATN podcast. You know what?

That's the one I should probably know. There's literally like an Abbey Road of Patrick Lebanon songs just being sent to the wrong email address. All right. While our producer Eric works on that, we have some breaking news that landed just as we were about to start. And that's the way I like it because too many times we get banged the other way. We finish recording, and then, oh, Pete Carroll got fired. Well, not this time. The Seattle Seahawks are moving on from Pete Carroll as their head coach, reported by the Pelraiser and elsewhere. He, as of right now, the way it's being spun, and there's a press conference coming up later today, Carroll will remain in the organization, but not as the head coach. So, Pete Carroll, who has had an incredible run in Seattle, 14 years, which in the NFL, you might as well say 100 years, 137 and 89 and one record, that's over a 600 winning percentage. He coached 19 playoff games, went to the Super Bowl back-to-back years. Very nearly, we don't need to litigate this, but very nearly went back-to-back Super Bowl championships, but that was one of the most memorable teams of the century, the Legion of Boom Seahawks with Russell Wilson and that incredible defense.

He is now 72 years old, Greg Rosenthal. You had been poking around on this one for a week or so. Cecil and I were trying to figure out who he was texting with with those thumbs.

I mean, it's a short list of candidates, but we didn't know exactly. Probably Ian.

But, Greg, you say, because I had mentioned it again before we started taping, to you, it was common sense. It was more about putting a puzzle together on that.

I had no information. I was trying to find out what people would say behind the scenes.

What do you think Ian, by the way, when he gets a Greg text, what is Ian's first reaction?

Excited? He's absolutely overjoyed because the connection is very rich. It's very story. I'm so freaking Jack.

I'm so freaking Jack.

I'm so freaking Jack. I'm so freaking Jack. I'm so freaking Jack.

I think he has no feelings whatsoever, just like all of his other interactions. That's acting. I love him for it. He's a defensive coach, and the defense has been bad for seven years. They're stuck in this middle ground where you could argue, well, their floor is very high with Pete Carroll, but maybe their ceiling is very low with Pete Carroll and that the things he said he's going to solve year after year aren't getting solved. He's been cycling through defensive coordinators. He's putting a lot of resources in that. Who knows? I love that they are announcing it as an amical agreement that his role will, quote, evolve to remain with the organization as an advisor. We maybe aren't going to get the full story on that or no, and I don't really care. They're both He's grownups here, and he is walking away with class. He's going to have a press conference afterwards, which is not always the case, certainly with a coach that's let go. He's a legend there, and he deserves to be treated. Maybe he really is just wanting to walk away. There was some whispers about that, too. I'm curious, who is making this decision exactly?

Obviously, it's Jody Allen to start with. But I think if John Schneider, the GM who has been there as long as Pete Carroll and also has a Super Bowl title, is still there there to help hire the next head coach. If the next head coach is Dan Quinn, which about 17 different NFL insiders have already put out there, is the prime candidate, and that maybe this is part of it, is that they feel like they're in a window here where the coach that they want is going to be available. We want to take him before he goes anywhere else. If Schneider is still there, that will tell me maybe it is a little bit more of a pushout situation. But either way, one of the best head coaches I've seen in the NFL.

I guess if it came down to some version of a power struggle, a soft power struggle, I mean, Pete Carroll won the power struggle essentially over Russell Wilson, and that was the last big battle there. If you're working, coaching GM for this long, as long as they did, and they made it work, it's natural that a relationship is going to start to wear down at some point professionally. It was Pete Carroll that just a couple of days ago said pretty clearly, I want to come back and coach this team. So something changed over the the last couple of days, but he's not a young guy, although he seems his energy is very young. Maybe this is a natural part of Pete Carroll that's open to this next step.

But he's also very good with the media.

I don't think I've ever interviewed a coach that I liked better, honestly.Oh, yeah.I.

Love Carroll, too. He's incredible. I remember being on the rooftop in downtown LA for a charity event the year they drafted Russell Wilson. I'll never forget, he was a very nice dude and open about how much he loved Wilson. My mom, obviously, is a big fan of Pete Carroll.Right. He's staying back to his jet stays.

But he said it-He thinks he's hot.

She thought he was extremely-Geet is okay with that.

He's very secure.

My father is very secure about the marriage, but Pete is someone to-It's good they don't exist in the same social circle. It's his number one competition. Let's just hope my dad doesn't want Pete coming east, put it that way. But when Pete says Patrick the other day, he's like, I'm not worried about anything. Pete knew it was going on behind the scenes, and that It was just the answer he gave.

I also think it's one of those situations where he's telling you before everybody else tells you that if something changes regarding my coaching status with the Seattle Seahawks, it was not a decision of mine. When he says, I love my job, I love this team, he did acknowledge that he said he needed to do some things better. It's a similar question with a lot of these coaching changes that the Chicago Bears are better on third down on offense and defense on Sunday. Are the Seahawks still making a change at the head coaching position?Not this week. At the end of the season? Well, not this week, right? But is this a scenario where it's like, This has to be it with Pete Carroll, the direction doesn't-Right.

If they don't lose the tie break, they literally have the same record as the packers.

Again, it's one of those things. Is this a real long term decision? But as Greg pointed out, there have been long term problems in trying to get solutions to them, and Pete hasn't been able to find them. So what's changing in order to get those?

Here's what I'm fascinated by, the idea of, okay, if He's going upstairs and into some type of nebulous role or an active role. I don't know what it would be, but if it's more like a Bruce Ariens with the Bucks type situation, is Pete ready to go into the sunset? Now he's 72, and he's the oldest coach in the league, and obviously Basically, you don't see many coaches go this far. But listen, the President in the United States is 81. I wonder what his market would be if indeed this went in a different direction. Are there teams that want Pete Carroll? Would he be a hot and demand name, whether it was this year or maybe a year from now? That is interesting.

You can pull like an Al Pacino, end of any given Sunday, and wind up somewhere else because his age, to me, has nothing to do with the Pete Carroll that we know. I don't care that he's 72. Check out that.

What was that dramatic when they had, what, week 16 in prime time? The guy looks like he's 48 years old. He's so chipper and dry and he loves what he's doing. I just something that doesn't compute about this, that he's going upstairs.

We'll I'm with you because if that Cowboys game had gone a little differently, if that Rams game, which I really feel like was the turning point for both those teams, not a memorable game, but a game that the Seahawks really outplayed the Rams and They had to step, stub their toe at the very end coming out of the Rams by, I think that got the Rams to like 4 and 6, 5 and 6. And the Seahawks had started their tailspin because their schedule got so much harder. They could have made the play-off. He's still a very good head coach. It's interesting to look back at his run. He doesn't get the pub Mike Tomlin does because he did have that 7 and 10 season in Russell Wilson's last year. But otherwise, they've had a winning record every year since 2012. And you think, well, they never got back to those heights when they made those back-to-back Super Bowl. But they did win 10 games, 10 games, 9, 10, 11, 12. They sneaky underperformed in the playoffs, which is very frustrating when you're a very good team and Mike McCarthy's packers know this, too. Ten playoff appearances seven divisional round appearances, but they actually never made it back even to a conference championship after that lost Super Bowl to the Patriots.

So it was a lot of one and done or win a wild card and lose. I think where he strikes me as young, emotionally, but maybe not as young in terms of schmatically. Is he keeping up with what you needed to do defensively and offensively to stay at the top?

I think the place Pete can add value the most might not be in Seattle anymore. They've already told him that, Hey, we would like you to do less. I think we just saw Bob Myers go over to the commanders. If you can bring in Pete Carroll in a situation to say, Hey, how do we go about this process? How do we construct a team? How do we align the general manager and the head coach? I think Pete Carroll could do that somewhere else better than he can in Seattle.

Also, it should be stated, he was fantastically successful in college as well. Is that a world he would like to go back to? Although that's even more work with the recruiting and all that. You mentioned the other thing, Greg, except for the last Wilson year, also doing it in the NFC West. There's been some juggernots in that division through the years, and to be able to continually be in the mix. It's another guy that's going to be hard to replace.

I totally agree. But I also think that was part of the reason they started to probably think about this, because McVay and Shanehan have owned the stocks offensively for five years. It's like, why are we going to expect this to change?

That's pretty tough, though.

I know. No, I get it.

Because those are the two best minds in the sport.

I get it. It's just that probably led to it that we're stuck in third.

There is another team in Sofye that is currently looking for a head coach.

Oh, Pete would love it down here.

He has LA roots.

I would hire him as just a guy to be around the team because one thing, Mark Sanchez was really good talking about this, but then I started listening to Seahawks' players talk about this, too. No one made you feel better and gave you more confidence that you could be your best self, essentially, than Pete Carroll. Sanchez and Gino has talked about this, too. It makes you feel like I'm going to do it, and you want to play for him. I think this is a bad news for Gino, their starting quarterback, and makes me think it's more likely that theyThat was Gino's biggest supporter.change everything. I think he really loved Gino. I think it went both ways. He believed in Gino in a way that who knows if the next coach is going to be. So there could be a lot of changes.

All right, so, Carroll, there's a bombshell right there. Another bombshell on Tuesday when the Tennessee Titans fired Mike Vrabel, Rapsheet reported it, and then it was confirmed in a statement from Amy Adam Strunk that Vrabel, the coach of the Titans for the past six seasons, leading the team to a 54 and 45 record, and two playoff victories, including an AFC title game appearance, is out. A lot of questions about why this happened, why it wasn't a trade, why the Titans would disconnect from one of the more successful coaches of the past decade. It's only fitting, gentlemen, if we're going to be talking a little tight tunes in a big spot that we bring in a Hall of Famer, a Hall of Fame producer. He's on Mount Rushmore. Do I need to say his name? How about I just play the drop?

Hey, everybody.

Justin Graver joins us from Parts Unkown. Well, it's actually his office. There it is, my favorite, the rotating Titans helmet that's going just a little too fast. What's up, buddy? How you been?

I've been great, guys. How are you all doing? I'm over at Fox Sports producing the NFL on Fox podcast nowadays, but I miss you guys every day.

Wait, the NFL on Fox podcast?

That's right.

We didn't know you were competing with us. We thought you were just doing baseball. It was nice having Justin on the show until next time.

Grave Digger. All right, Grave Digger. That's great because you are obviously wonderfully suited for anything involving NFL coverage. You have your Titans podcast, which is called what?

The Music City Audible.

So make sure you check that out. And I am sure you had an emergency episode to break this down. What were your initial thoughts when the news went down that Vrabel was out? How surprised were you? And what do you think about the state of the organization in general?

Yeah, I think it was a bit surprising. I would put it at a seven out of 10 surprise rating because there's been a lot of smoke surrounding what Vrabel possibly being traded to the Patriots. I think dating back to him being inducted into the Patriots Hall of Fame, we've seen a lot of reports that the Patriots would want to go after him. Would Mike Vrabel want to force his way The Titans don't want to move on from Mike Vrabel, but would he want to force his way out and move on himself? And it seems like maybe some of that was overblown. And we've heard a lot of stuff about a rift between Vrabel and general manager Ran Carthon. Ran Carthon dismissed all of that in his press conference yesterday. Naturally. He and Vrabel were on great terms, of course. What else is he going to say? He's going to help Vrabel land the next job and not kick his buddy while he's down. But I did find it very interesting that it seems this all has has come more from a rift between he and ownership, between he and Amy Adams-Strunk. We have Nashville media members cite blowups between Vrabel and ownership that are very interesting.

I think all of this is more about what's happening behind the scenes than anything Vrabel did on the field. And granted, 6-18 in his last 24 games, 1-5 in the division this year, those are things that can get a head coach fired. But I think that Mike Vrabel proved himself to be a great coach, to always play above love the level of talent that he was working with, especially the injury ravaged 2021 season. So for those reasons, it is a surprise because we thought Vrabel was a good coach for the Titans. But Amy Adam Strunk cited wanting an innovative, fresh approach at the head coaching position. And there's been a lot of talk that Vrabel didn't align with the vision of the future of this team. And I don't really know what that means because Ran Carthon was asked multiple times, what is the vision? And he said, we'll tell you when it's time to tell you. And Amy Adam Strunk said, We're not going to define that vision right now, but we do have one, and it all feels a little bit messy for sure. But I do think on the positive bias side, this could play out well for the Titans if you look at some of the quicker rebuilds in the NFL over the last few years.

Sean McVay turning the Rams around quickly, Dan Campbell in Detroit, Mike McDaniel in Miami. But then there's the flip side, the Brandon Staley's that you're really excited to hire when it happens, and three years later, everyone's calling for his head. So I think this could go okay, or it could be a major disaster. And if it proves to be a major disaster, I think you have to point to ownership making a rash decision here.

Yeah, I'm a little worried about Strunk here. There was that whole season where Malarkey made it to the playoffs. They said they were going to keep him, and then they met. They literally said, We talked contract with him. Then they met, and then they fired him. And then they gave Robinson and Vrabel an extension after '21. And then they fired Robinson 10 months later, which led to Carthon being thrown in here. I did wonder all season, why are these reports coming out? Sometimes it's hard not to connect the dots. Vrabel has more friends in the media than any coach I feel like since Jeff Fisher. It felt like maybe that was coming from his side, that maybe he wanted to get out. From her side of it, you can look at it like he seemed to have some issues with two GMs. That's part of the job is being on the same page. He clearly wasn't happy about the AJ Brown trade That was the old GM, and now the new GM. Maybe even though he is a good coach, and I think he is a good coach, he'll get a job. Maybe it was time because it wasn't happening there.

A lot of drama.

Yeah, there's some of that, and there's a connection here, Sestog, between Vrabel and Belichick. Belichick is connected to Parcells, and I bring this up because when Parcells left the Patriots, it was, If you want me to cook the dinner, you got to let me shop for the groceries. I think Vrabel feels like at this point in time that he should be the guy running the operation and clearly drunk, was going in a different direction. The fact that you had a GM and an arranged marriage that clearly they didn't hit it off, and ownership seems to have sided with this GM who hasn't succeeded at all, hasn't had much of a chance yet, whereas Vrabel has. That's where I would get a little nervous as a Titans fan about the decision-making.

Yeah, and Graver. I'll never forget the night when we were in Las Vegas during the draft, and the bombshell came down, as Greg mentioned, that AJ Brown was traded. And Immediately started to do a live feed about the whole thing. But you were shell shocked by that move, and I think Cress fallen. That's, to me, the origin of the offense, falling apart. To the point of getting groceries and helping we're able to succeed. The offense has been a disaster for two seasons. They aren't dynamic the way that other teams are in the AFC. I feel like the frustration that he showed that night and the frustration he's felt since, that makes sense that he's behind the scenes blowing up and not getting his way. I think a parting mix is less surprising when you start to put all those pieces together.

Gravedigger, I just want to thank you again. You always kept us young on our show. A very zoomer move to go into a live stream during the middle of our show there. It was impressive. I'll never forget that.

Well, just to clarify what happened there, Ricky started the live stream and shoved the phone in front of my face and said, talk.

That checks out as well.

But yes, that was a fun night for Titans fans. No, it's crazy. You look at the Titans' offenses that didn't have A. J. Brown under Mike Vrabel. They all finished 27th best or worse in terms of scoring offense. So was A. J. Brown that big of a piece of the puzzle there? I think part of this whole new direction that Amy Adam Strunk wants to go in this vision is to get away maybe from the bully ball style of football that Mike Vrabel preached. And we're going to out-physical you as opposed to out-scheme you is maybe a little bit old-school mindset and looking at some of the most successful offensive coordinators in today's scheme today's football, yeah, they're running schemes from the late '90s, the Shana Hans scheme, but they're doing so in a way that attacks their opponents' weaknesses. I always felt like the Titans under Mike Vrabel shied away from that. It was more about, We're going to play our style of ball. We don't care that the team we're playing against has a top ranked run defense and a bottom ranked pass defense. We're going to establish the run so we can run play action off of it and ignoring the more new school ideas of, you don't necessarily need to be successful on the ground to have a strong play action game.

You that action in the backfield. Linebackers are going to flow downfield, whether or not you've been gashing them. I think that's where some of this is going. Again, not necessarily him as a coach, as a developer, as a person who can connect to players, because I think he is all those things. But when it comes to being more innovative and fresh-minded and not trying to get a lead at halftime and then sit on it, but put your foot on the throat of your opponent. Keep scoring points the way that the teams like the 49ers and the Dolphins do when they're having success. I think that's where this this all stemmed from was, did variable want more control? There's conflicting reports that he did. Other people are saying that he actually asked Amy Adam Strunk to hire someone, a general football operations president type of person that would be above him and Rancarthon, that they would both answer to one person as opposed to answering to the owner. I don't know if he necessarily did want more control. He might have, and it could be a false report out there. But I really think this is about Amy Adam Strunk felt Mike Grable wasn't going to win a Super Bowl.

She wants something young and innovative. She looks around the league and sees these exciting offenses. The Titans haven't scored 30 points in a football game since late in the 2021 season. They went over two full calendar years, and it's going to be two and a half by the time we get to September without scoring 30 points in a game. So I think they just wanted a fresh approach, and it could end up being a mistake. If Mike Grable goes to New England, gets to draft a quarterback at number three and has instant success, it's going to look really bad on what the Titans have done here. But on the other hand, if they get their guy and they have success next year with Will Levis and a lot of draft capital and a lot of salary cap space this offseason, I think that was another part of it. If the vision wasn't aligned, if Mike Vrabel wasn't on the same page, are you going to let him have a big say in how you're going to spend that cap space this offseason on what you're going to do with the seventh overall pick this year?

And then turn around, if it doesn't work, fire him next year and you waste this important offseason. I think that all a role in this.

Justin Graver, you've said it all. By the way, ironic that if you added a Tsar in there, you would go from Vrabel saying, I want to cook and I want the ingredients. Then you have too many chefs potentially. You don't have too many cooks either. So a lot of stuff to figure out with the Titans. We know you got a lot to do over there at Fox, and let's hit him with another Gravedigger because I missed that drop. I missed that man. You look healthy and happy, and we miss you, bud.

Thanks. I miss you guys, too. Great to see you. Thanks for having me on.

All right. Good to see you.

Love you, Graver.

See you, man.

Love you, guys. Iconic Hall of Famer. Patrick, your thoughts on the situation.

Well, and the one thing that I really want to try to figure out from not just Graver, but from the Tennessee Titans, because earlier in the week, it was, Well, we're not going to do the end of the year news conference until later this week, until after Coach has this conversation with ownership and management. It's like, okay, what's going on there? And I just wonder, is there a scenario where the conversation ends and Mike Vrabel is still the head coach. Because if that's the case, then that signals a major problem to me that you're just making these decisions in the spur of the moment based on a conversation right at the end of the football.

Like the malarkey thing, too, which I know a long time ago.

Which sets up, but it's still a pattern. If you go from these coaching... It's like if these higher fire decisions are coming down to one conversation, then what are we really deciding?

There was also a report literally six weeks ago that said, Mike Vrabel is going to be safe in 2024 and beyond. That was from Diana Rossini of The Athletic. That felt like it came straight. And beyond. Something like that doesn't come from an assistant coach. That comes from the top. You can almost see, you can connect the dots because the Titans put it out there, or we found out from Diana on Monday as well, that they didn't want to do the trade potentially for Mike Vrabel because it take a long time, and they just didn't want to get stuck in that process, and they wanted to get going with possibly hiring the new coaches. Then I watched this video. I'm not going to say it's like Kremlin-like, but it did remind me of a very strange situation. It was a five-minute video from the Titans with Strunk and a reporter, I guess, from the team.

Had a bit of a CBS, like a public television vibe to it, actually.

But I know, and I'm not speaking for this one in particular, but I've heard of ones like this. She knows what questions is coming. That's basically a press conference without being a press conference. She's going to hit the button she wants to hit to get the voice out there to the fans, which is fine. That's her right. I don't think it's crazy. But one of the things she stressed in that one was that exact same point, that she didn't want to go through the whole trade thing. She basically went through everything Justin was saying there.

I don't know. She didn't want to go through the trade thing.

To bring value to the organization? To be fair, I don't think the trade It would have happened anyways because Mike Vrabel has to go along with that, and it could be a big process. I don't know if they would have done that. Drama. It just was all very interesting. This was not a team that people thought of having great ownership with her father, or was it her father-in-law? I forget about Adams, but either way, I think it was her father.

It was a fun window, though. I liked that Titans team. The window was ending the braided Pats era, Was it who had the pick six? Was it Logan Ryan? Logan Ryan. To getting to the AFC title game. That team was fun to watch, even though they weren't the traditional type of air it out attack. You had Derek Eric Henry as the lead, and Ryan Tannehill is a really good veteran quarterback, and that window closed, and now they're into the great unknown without Vrabel as well.

Yeah, changes were already coming to the roster, especially on offense. But I can't really think of an AFC team that is set for a bigger tone shift than the Titans because they were very much Mike Vrabel's creation.

Yes, and the players love him. They played hard. He's a tough one to figure because I don't think he's ever shown he provides any particular schematic advantage. The year he was a defensive coordinator in the Texans, they were a terrible defense. They were one of the worst defense in the league. Even in Tennessee, the numbers didn't say it, and yet you can see it on the field that they're greater than the sum of their parts. They're tough, they play hard. I think that the moment they'll look back on is that bangles lost, and they were the one seed. Yes, they made the AFC Championship the next year. They followed it up with the one seed. That game was very winnable, and they just couldn't get any pass protection, and that essentially continued for the next three seasons.

That was that special Cincinnati season. All right, let's move on. More to get to. Some head coaches who are safe, but their assistant... You okay, Mark? No.

Yes.

Some head coaches that are okay, but there are changes beneath them. The The buyers fire offensive coordinator, Luke Getzey, as well as four other offensive assistants. There is a... I mean, so much, Claybon, of intrigue around the bears right now. Palace intrigue. The idea is Matt Iberfluss is going to get a third season. Well, it certainly looks like he'll get year three, but they're going to do it with a whole new staff. Of course, remember, defensive coordinator Alan Williams resigned from his role earlier this season. Very murky scenario there. While Rappaport reported that Iberfluss is likely to remain the team's defensive play caller, he's expected to hire a true defensive coordinator per a source. This is all set against the backdrop of the biggest quarterback decision in the history of the organization.

Yeah, there's a lot of different places that the bears could go at this point. I guess the Getzey thing seemed like it was somewhat inevitable. It was the question was, was Iber Fluss going to join him? And now if somebody else is coming in to bring over the defensive play calling, and then somebody else is going to be, of course, calling the offense, it's one of those things where we're watching league-wide. It's, Oh, you got to get the play caller. The play collar has to be the head coach. Otherwise, how are you going to get this, guys? How does that match with the idea that we're going to have either a quarterback or this is Justin Fields in a must-make-it situation? I just don't think it sounds great for the current head coach of the bears as of right now, considering the position he's in.

Yeah, I think he goes into next year because there's hope in Chicago that there's pressure on him. I guess when you go and look around at the available play callers out there, it is a bit of like, what are you telling that OC? Like, behind the scenes, look at we're sticking with Justin Fields, and we need someone who can design an offense around Justin Fields and make him special. Or we might be going and drafting Caleb Williams or Drake May, and we need someone who can flexibly go to sign an offense around that. Because if you go and get a Greg Roman type person to make Justin Fields the center of the universe, that guy can't go do the thing you'd want if you had Caleb Williams. It's a very intriguing selection on who you pick here.

You probably keep your card so close to the vest because you don't trust anyone yet, even if you have a feeling. They probably don't have a final answer, although you would think Ryan Polls in his heart of hearts, knows which way he's leaning. But yeah, I think you pick a coordinator based on the expectation that you're going to have a rookie. The thing that has to be so frustrating for Bear's fans is this is the exact same setup that has failed them multiple times before with this ownership in a row. You kept John Fox one extra year after he was absolutely terrible, 3-13. They draft Mitch Trubisky. You fire John Fox. Then it's like a coach in Matt Naguih that didn't have him, blah, blah, blah. You were thinking about maybe firing Between Naguih with Trubisky, you keep them one extra year, you draft Justin Fields, it doesn't go that well. You fire Matt Naguih, and then it's Field starting over again with a coach that didn't happen. The most likely outcome here, because Matt Iberflus hasn't shown to be a huge difference maker, it is a good roster, and maybe they will win. But if they don't, Matt Iberflus will not be here next year, and it'll be a coach who didn't draft.

It's just like they're never synced up, and it's always the same thing.

In other news, the Jaguars melted down, down the stretch of a regular season, missing out on the playoffs. Usually, when something like that happens, heads roll. And if it's not the head coach, it's the people right below. That's what happened here. The Jaguars fired defensive coordinator Mike Caldwell and multiple assistance on Monday. The team announced Doug Peterson had said earlier Monday that he was still, quote, processing the disappointing end to the season. It was going to take some time before making changes. Well, he didn't need much time. In addition to Caldwell, they also fired D-line coach, Brinston Buckner, passing game coordinator and cornerbacks coach, DeShia Townsend, inside linebackers coach, Tony Gilbert, safety's coach, Cody Grim. Grim. Senior defensive assistant, Bob Sutton, and defensive quality control coaches T Mitchell's and Sean Kalina. They clean out a lot of the staff, and not a surprise.

Not a surprise, but they had different options. It was interesting listening to some of the local cover. John Shippley does a great Jaguars podcast podcast that I've listened to. They were like, Are they going to change the offensive coordinator? Because the offense got a lot worse and was more disappointing, whereas this season, the defense, which is mediocre, did improve from where it was a year ago. Or could the GM, Trent Balki, be in trouble? Because I think if you were doing a blame pie, he might have the biggest one. But Doug Peterson is an offensive coach, ultimately, and it's the cleanest, easiest thing to just blame it on the defense. Their defense certainly struggled in that week 18 game and it was sloppy with mistackles throughout the season.

It was a total team implosion. It was on both sides of the ball, but the defense certainly... I mean, it's interesting as Doug Peterson, one of the reasons that he ended up breaking up with the Eagles was in that final offseason, they asked him to do this exact same thing, which was make major coaching changes, and he showed extreme loyalty and wound up leaving the Eagles for that reason. But in this case, you're right, it's not his side of the ball. There was clear evidence that change needed to come.

Yeah, especially... Well, down the stretch, they go through that run. There's the Jake Browning game. The bangles scored 34 points, and they lose to the new look Flacko Browns, which everybody did. They lose to the Ravens, which everybody did. But the 28 points against the Titans were a few weeks ago. They blew out the Titans. It was 34-14. It just looked like a functionally different situation. Christian Kirk hurts. But it was tough to defend the Jacks defense, the way that they played the entire season. They made some key turnovers in some spots, but you go back when you're examining the schedule, it really just wasn't a good defense.

The offense seemed really poorly coached, though, too. But what are you going to do? You could switch coordinators, but it's ultimately Peters. They just got to button that up. All these interceptions where the receivers don't know where they are, they can't get a short yardage play. It stuck out more, too. To me, the offensive coach.

Think about that Chief's loss where there were multiple drops in the end zone, and it seemed to plague them all year. I think the whole thing about Doug Peterson, it's Trevor Lawrence. He took a step back. I know he's banged up. He played through a lot of injuries, but it's like there was this incredible promise that Trevor Lawrence was becoming the top five quarterback, and we saw a lot of the old mistakes pop up.

Did you see the reel that popped up this week on Twitter of near touch downs from Trevor Lawrence? I mean, we're talking what? 10, 12 touch downs that are plays that could be or should be made. That's why I I'm not going to not be surprised with some tweaks to what they're doing. It has a healthy year that he's a monster next year. I'm not out on Lawrence as a monster.

Everybody's going to overreact. Like, Dak has some pics at the end of last season. It's like, Oh, God, it's over for Dak. I think Trevor will be fine. My It's a question because for folks who didn't watch the game, of course, if you look at the highlights, it's Trevor Lawrence pulling the ball back on fourth and goal where he almost had a chance to score. But on third down, they lined up with three guys in a row and ran this spin-out pass that had no hope. It's just like, what's the plan?

But on that failed sneak by Lawrence, there was other tapes showing that Lineman were... Because he changed the call. He changed into that play call, that it didn't go deep enough where Line Room were doing the right thing.

He just did it on his own. He's done that before, but doing it, that was on him from the...

He took accountability for it, too. I'm with you, Dan. There's no reason to not believe in him at this point, but it was just like the progress.

I love you, Dan, though, that luck, and this is true of all these firings. Like, luck is an uncomfortable portion of why any of this happened, just like that, you had some bad breaks.

If I had to call and execute that third downplay, I would have tried to Yolo it myself, too.

Hell, yeah. By the way, some nice mellow drama. Speaking of palace intrigue, with the Giants, defense coordinator Wink Martindale. This bummed me out when I heard this right before we started. They have mutually agreed to part ways. The team announced Wednesday. Earlier today, the story was that, and the background was Brian Dable, I believe, came out and said early Monday, I expect Wink to be back. Then they have a meeting that same day that they had a conversation, and that's a nice way to call it, Wink and Brian Dable. It ended with Martindale cursing out his coach. It was all about the Giants' decision to move on and Dable's decision to move on from outside linebacker's coach, Drew Wilkins, and defensive assistant, Kevin Wilkins, both had come over with Wink from Baltimore, and Drew was Wink's right-hand man. The Post reported that Dable was adamant about getting rid of Drew and by association, Kevin, because there was, a feeling in the building that Martindale and Drew Wilkins were creating their own fiefdom. Fiefdom, one of my words, within the coaching staff, at times bypassing Dable and believing they had to answer only to each other and ultimately ownership.

Dable sniffs this out, or he perceives this, whether it's true or not, and says, Hell no. It ends with Dable cursing out Dable, excuse me, cursing out Dable, storming out of the facility. Then Mike Gs were on the Insider Show on NFL Plus today. He's saying the Giants are in a weird spot because he just stormed off and went to Florida and never technically resigned, and they also didn't fire him. So they were handcuffed a little bit.

They owe them $3 million.

It was going to cause a problem for the Giants. So my disappointment is that as a man who loves mellow drama, can't talk right now, that's all over because they mutually agree and Wink-You're upset that it's been resolved. It was fun. I wanted more dysfunction. But Wink is going to get a job somewhere, but also the head coach that hires him is like, damn, do I want these Wilkins boys with me? I don't know.

It's so funny because it's like, it reminded me of that book, Collision Loe Crossers, that we all read, where a big part of the drama between the Jets was that the offensive staff- By the way, drink every time Mark still brings up Collision Loe crossers. I literally actually had a long talk with Collision Loe crossers with Pete Carroll way back in the day. He had a lot to say. But anyways, people should check it out.

There are not enough great-Check out what? Collision Loe crossers.

There aren't enough books like this.

I did order, and I have that book on my coffee table because Mark- There it is. What book?

Collision Loe crossers. Because Mark has referenced so much, I literally bought it two weeks ago.

There should be more books like this, Greg, because they- I could lend it to you, but good for the author. They abedded someone with the Jets for a year plus. You learn, number one, everything that happens to a football team the minute the offseason starts and what the coaches do. But it got so soiled because the offensive staff, and you had Sanchez and things were up and down, obviously, and the defensive staff, they weren't even speaking to each other, and they were openly at odds. I think bad teams, this is what starts to happen. It's like this year's Jets and this year's Giants, where you've got defunct quarterback play, and you got a defense trying to hold down the fort, and wing Martindale is no wilting flower.

I love it. I'm with you, Dan. I'm sad this happened. Although I don't like Dable's move here. It just seems cowardly. You have a press conference, you say Martindale is going to be back. Obviously, there's some issues here. Glazer reported on it three weeks ago or whatever it was a month ago that the two of them weren't getting along. You say he's going to be back, then you fire his two closest assistants without having a conversation with him ahead of time.

That's odd.

That, to me, is your firing Wink Martindale because you know what's going to happen. So just fire Wink Martindale.Did.

You hear? I heard this through my reporting. Wink went into the office. He's like, Where's Drew?

Drew.

No, he did not. Kev? Drew and Kev. Wilkins boys. No answer. They were gone.

They're gone. Then, Brian, actually, Brian Dable goes in just from the hallway. They're gone.

They're gone.

You're right, though, Greg. It was a roundabout move. This was the coach of the year a year ago.

Well, and there are some reporting, too. Kafka is unhappy with how Dable has minimized him. He's the offensive coordinator. Then you do have a little bit. I like Dable, but there just seems to be some-Howardly is strong, by the way.

Isn't that part of this? This stuff happens all the time, doesn't it? We hear about this all the time, firing assistants that are connected to people and then get them to resign.

I only have so many principles, but I do feel like the most important principle is just be forthright in important matters with people around you. That just seems like you're taking the easy way out.

Don't have a loud passionate screaming match on national television with somebody and then come out and be like, Hey, everything's fine. We hang out, we We have tea in the afternoon. No, we had a disagreement. We're not necessarily seeing eye to eye on a certain issue.

But the market, Patrick, he's trying to put that out because anything you say is going to be ample. Sure.

Okay, well, fortunately, we're not talking about dysfunction with the light of the media. He's another to not just handle it with Martindale person to person.

Are they going to get rid of the defensive meeting rooms? It seems like as a fiefdom, right? Because I had to look it up. It's an area over which someone exercises control in the manner of a futal Lord. So are we going to say, anytime the defense is meeting, Wait, what are you guys talking about? I don't necessarily trust you.

Dable is like, Hey, Wink, you want to have a conversation real quick? He's like, No, I'm actually just about to grab Drew and get some lunch. Dable is like, No, you're not.

He will not be having lunch with Drew.

Yeah, he won't be finding Drew. He's just going to find an empty office. All right. And finally in the news, all quiet in New England for the time being. So Vrabel's out. Hell, Carroll's out. Carroll will coach the Pats once upon a time. Not putting that together, I'm just saying. That's history. But a couple of days now after Bill's end of season press conference and him mentioning that he was under contract to the Patriots and all the speculation connecting him to multiple teams, including the Atlanta Falcons. No updates. I do have as the ATN Media Insider. I did get a quote from Bill. I know this is going to be surprising.

Very surprising.

Because you know what Robert Kraft wants? Kraft wants Bill to quit, and then he looks good, and then they start over. But Bill wants to... He's putting the heat on Kraft to make the move. Here's what Bill told me, exclusively. Oh, wow. If you want to stop me, You're going to have to, Fuck, kill me. Emotional. He's starting to open up a little bit, and that's good. I think that's good that Bill is being honest with the media, just like Dable, we don't want to be cowardly. Yeah, cathartic.

Was it easy to get him to go on the record one-on-one with you?

I got him very drunk.

You do wonder, is Robert Kraft making Jonathan Kraft be the bad guy here? They did, by the way, not enjoy that Pete Carroll experience the first time around. That was their welcome to NFL

It does make sense to me that there would be some... I think they want to have it be as Kumbaya as Seahawks have with Pete Carroll was a different person. Pete Carroll thing. I fully expect Bill Belchick to not be the head coach of the Patriots in a week or whenever it's not going to be that Kumbaya. Not Phil Style. But I think they're trying to just manage it, and that change is coming. It hasn't come in the 48 hours after the season.

You look at Tennessee with Vrabel, and they decided not to pursue the trade route. It does make sense when you break it down that, obviously, Kraft would love to turn this into a trade, But Bill has no reason to make it a trade. If Bill puts it back on Kraft, he's like, I'm not agreeing to anything like that. You're going to have to fire me. You can't keep me. If you don't trade me and you don't fire me, then you got to keep me. Meanwhile, the Patriots are trying to start over, and it's like, When is this going to wrap up? Is the question.

Tom also believes Bill wholeheartedly really wants to stay in New England. He loves it there. He's been there forever. He believes he can turn it around. Yeah, he's got to go out kicking and screaming. He is not assuming that this is a fait accompli. You never know. Maybe he could be persuasive, but I don't think so. I also don't think any team is waiting around for Bill Belichick or Mike Vrabel for that matter on these trades. It's like, Vrabel was 6-18. Yes, they would give up something potentially, but it's not Mike Vrabel three years ago off winning the coach of the Year. It's not Bill Belichick 10 years ago or anything.

You're that? Weisshe was the same thing. I think Belichick is tremendous. I think he's going to have a big market.

I do, too. I just don't think teams are going to wait around to send a valuable draft pick for him. If they're waiting around to get a fifth-round pick, it's like, What are we doing?

It'd be embarrassing to be trading for a fifth-round pick.

I'm just saying, I don't think anyone's given up a first for Bill right now. We're going through the hassle of it.

Who do you call? How do you make a trade for Bill Belichick?

I guess the other team has to start. You have to go through Bill first? You have to...

Well, true.

You got a circle around Bill Belichick, but you call it Crafts.

That's a ownership thing.

You're going to have to kill me. That's interesting. All right, that's what's happening in the news. Eric, circling back to the Claybon theme song. Yes.

Any Claybon theme songs or anybody's theme songs for that matter. We got that Mark Sesler one just got dropped in our lap. Didn't really ask for it.

That's a banger.

Theatnpodcast@gmail. Com. Do you have that? If you're going to mention it, might as well play it. Just to give you an idea of the creativity that we expect. If you're going to submit, don't waste our time. I want actual musicians. I want real production values because anything less than that is a slap in the face of Patrick layman.

Which is fine.

You could slap. We're not going to go the Dable route with Drew. We want to treat the man with the respect he deserves. The themes that we've had for Coleen and who else has bass? Weish. Weish has a ton. By the way, Weish, before we did... Here's the Mark theme, by the way. It's so on brand. Hobart Curtis sent this in for us, guys. To hear my stuff. Everybody can't get enough. Can't you just picture Mark in a club in Berlin with Piers Nipples just dancing?

Every one of those, all aspects of that story.

I could see him at the DJ table spinning this track. Like with the crowd going He's rolling out of his mind.

I'm going on the dance floor, the Piers Nipples paisley open shirt. Not a button down, but no buttons.

Nobody's touching their nipples.

A lot of slow motion. Here's the drop. Anyway, before the Weish submissions came in, we actually spoke with Weish like, What do you want? He talked about his wife, Dee's Jamaican background, I believe it is. We got something with a little dancy Calypso vibe to it. Caribbean, yeah. Caribbean. Like, What would a Claybon song sound?

You're going to hate my answer. No, I'm going to love it. Because if somebody's taking the time to make a track about me, just feel it. Whatever I've ever said that means something to you or anything. No boundaries.

You don't need a particular style.

No, I'm not going to put anybody in a box.

You're saying lyrically, go wherever you want, but musically, is there a genre that perhaps you would...

I would prefer control over the lyrics more than the music.

We can't offer you that. We can't offer you We can't let you shop for the groceries. Someone's shopping for the groceries and making the meal here.

You'll have multiple to pick from if it goes, I didn't. I got one. But that's fine. I really enjoy it. They nailed it.

I mean, that's one out of one. Yeah, they nailed it.

If you want a rolling, sweating glow stick track like Mark's, that's fine.

It doesn't feel right, though. I don't know what it is. Patrick, there's something...

People are going to get the essence. They're going to... You know what? They know him through the portal of the show.

I was going to offer my opinion on it, but I'm just going to let the people feel it out.

Look at a picture of Patrick's beautiful face.

Just stare at it. What does it bring to you? Creatively, how does that get the juice is flowing?

It could be a sultry song.

We don't know. Yeah, try to control yourself. Look at a Pat Claibon's photo.

I don't know if Patrick is a huge music guy.

Yeah, but the people making the song are.

That's what I'm saying, but that informs why he doesn't need a specific genre or anything. He's open-minded to all of this.

I also don't know enough because musical genre is getting the weeds a little bit.

I just remember having a conversation with you, Juan, about me, and you're like, I don't know that much about music. I was like, Okay, that's interesting.

What about something with a bit of a Hooba Stank vibe.

More the reason or crawling in the dark?

The reason.

I think you're trying to project onto him what he wants.

I had to share. For some reason, the reason. I'm more crawling in the dark than I am the reason. Okay, There you go. There's just one direction you can go. I mentioned looking at the pictures of Patrick. Be respectful. That's all. Yeah, control yourself. I know it's hard. Be respectful. All right, let's take a break. Did we say the name of the email?

Yeah, that's theatnpodcast@gmail.

Com. Send them in. Don't disappoint us. We believe in you. We will send you a signed autograph photo of Mark Sesler in the Levi jacket. Anyone that submits a song that we use on the show. How about that? That means we got to send Mark back for another photo engagement.

No, I'll take it out in the wild. I'm not taking it in the- That evens the score. I'm not taking it in the corporate office.

We're going to get you. No. It's going to be like one of those yearbook photos where they take you outside and put you up against the oak tree.

That photographer was brought here for that window of time. She's not in the building.

She's downstairs. She's part of the photo team, bud. You got to plug in on this office. You think we outsource that?

I do not need to in to the office.

We're going to have you come in on an off day, too. We're going to get your makeup done.

I will literally drive to Canada before any of that happens.

Let's take a break and we'll be right back. La di di di dam di di dam. Award season has come. Everyone has awards. Why the fuck can't we have them, too? Thusly, it is time for the ATN Awards. Not to be confused with the Avian Awards.

I don't know. Certainly not.

I mean, one's more fun than the other.

Yeah, and it's not this one.

All right, now, you see it everywhere. Weirdly, we've never done this, and it's something we had to rectify. That's why. We have never... I got you. That one.

Got a Joe Coy over here.

That's been to many at a Vienn Award. That's why he co-hosted them. You had a memorable pattern with Brianna Banks back in '02, I remember. Yeah, who can forget? All right, now let's get into it. It is time to share our picks. What we did, we did as a collective, a voting system that mirrors what the Associated Press does with the MVP award, which is a voting that breaks it down. You get five votes, and a first-place vote is 10 points. Second-place vote is what? Five points, was it?

Yeah, and then three, two, one. Three, two, one.

For the NFL, the official awards, which are announced at the honors and all that stuff, that is just for the MVP. But we did it for the other major awards as well. Let's go through them all. We had a nice voting body this year. It was the three of us. Claybon was with us as well. Nick Shook, who's another member of the ATN Hall of Fame, the Sunday Night Man and Beyond the Pipe. You have Coleen Wolf, also turned in her ballot. Also behind the Glass, Big Funk, and Eric Roberts.Wow.That is...

Streets are talking like, should the producers combine to have one producer vote? Have Have they earned a totally separate and equal vote? I would have just bullied Randy into taking my vote.Okay.Okay..

I thought you were going to stand up for yourself and say that they deserve it. No, of course we do.Okay..

But If it would have been one vote, I just would have taken the vote. That's fine.

I got developing news, by the way.

I'm glad we learned more about your dynamics between the two of you. That was fascinating.

On her My mom has made a statement on the changing of the guard in Seattle.

Oh, okay. Mom says, four-word statement, but incredibly powerful, football just got uglier. Wow.

This crush has been decades old, right?

It started in... Pete was one and done with the Jets in '94. So 30 years? Yeah, she's been married almost 55, 50 years.

Fair amount of-Maybe that was a sneaky key to his college success, going in those-I don't know how sneaky are we? Recruiting and impressing the moms. Okay.

Unbelievable. That salt and pepper hair will take you far. All right, let's get to it now. Mvp. It is... Wait. My dad also has now replied to a statement because I put Keith and dad on the thread. Any phone call home, they're always both on the phone.

Oh, absolutely. Same with my parents. Always together.

Keith has chimed in. Oh, no. Direct Basically, after my mom, another jet coach that failed. Hey, man. It's a little competition there, it sounds like to me.

He doesn't seem too concerned.

No. All right, let's get to it. Mvp, it is a runaway. My only concern with this, and I shared this with producer Eric, was that we're going to be a little too chalky as a group to what everyone else is going to say.

But we're also going to do it the right way. We can get into how we disagree if we want with any of those votes. Sure.

I hope we disagree because that makes for good podcasting. All right, the MVP of the League in a landslide, Lamar Jackson, who got first-place votes from everyone except for Shuki. Nick Shuk gave his first-place vote to Christian McCafry. Lamar got 75, what do they call it, points? I don't even know how they do it.Votes?It seems like a point. Points, whatever.

You can call them whatever you want.

Second place, a little bit of surprise, I thought, but narrowly edging out Dack. Christian McCafry got 27 points, Dack 26. Fourth place, Brock Purdy, and then fifth place, Tyreek Hill. So Purdy had 16 points. Tyreek had 11. And Mark, I really do think I think Purdy might do, or I'm almost certain Purdy will do better in the AP voting. But I think it just goes to show you there was that lingering idea of where Purdy's talents stack up to everything else that's going on around him. But also, I think that stage on Christmas night flopping essentially ended his change.

Yeah, I went Lamar number one and purdy number two. Colleen I also had purdy number two. I think it was a really unique year for MVP where they all seemed to square off and duel against each other down the stretch. I think that Lamar passed every test. He passed every test and did stuff. There was no real second place to me.

Well, also, there's another 49er that outvoted Purdy in this voting, and I think that's part of it, is that reasonable minds can look at that team and think, McCafree is the most important guy on it, especially this year. I think reasonable minds could go Purdy. My big takeaway from doing all these awards is there are no awards, maybe the exception of offensive rookie of the year, but we could even get into that with the season Pukah had. That seemed like there's bad choices. I don't think Dak or purdy are bad choices here. It's completely reasonable to vote for them first over Lamar. I voted Lamar first, CMC second, so I ended up chalk with what we ended up with. But even Josh Allen is not that crazy. He ended up sixth on ours. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets in the top five in the final voting.

I had Dak. I gave him my second-place vote and Purdy, my third-place vote, but I could have easily went the other way on that. But it was a very clear the way Lamar closed that he deserved it. The Ravens are sitting on a buy right now as a result, in large part because of Jackson's incredible-You didn't mention the votes at the very end.

Stafford. I gave Stafford a fourth-place vote.

I like that. I always like when somebody... It's usually a local beat guy, and we're in Los Angeles.

Miles Garrett got a fourth place vote. I don't know who...

That was me.

That was... T. J. Stroud got a fifth place vote. Then in a total stunner, Coleen voted your mom. Yeah, she got a vote.

Whose mom is she pointing to?Your mom.Your mom.

I guess it just applies to anyone who asks a question.

Anyone who hears. You know what? Moms don't get enough credit. I think that was a great move.

That's a great vote because she quietly He voted for millions of people.

Yeah, that was billions. Billions. Probably more than millions.

Eric not only voted Josh Allen third, which I think is very reasonable. He made Randy put him on the ballot, too. That was where those votes came from.

Twisted his arm violently. All right, let's move to offensive.

I talked about Jordan Love, guys. That would have been fun. It's like a fifth place.

Offensive player of the year. Now, this one, it made me think, how do the voters do with this? Because hypothetically, if you vote quarterbacks in the MVP rankings, do you just eliminate them from this entirely, or do you put them... But I did it. I took them out.

I took them out. I had the same question. It's like, why wouldn't I take the second best quarterback that I voted for an MVP and just make him offensive player of the year? But I went zero quarterback strategy.

Sometimes quarterbacks have won both. I remember Payton Manning did it, for instance. That's why I've always been annoyed by this award.

Then you're the MVP by nature.

It's also like, if you voted them second, then I'll vote for the quarterback first. I'd say it's most valuable non-quarterback.

All right, with that said, here is the offensive player of the year, and it's deserved It is the running back of the 49ers, Christian McAfree with 65 votes.

If you're watching on YouTube, we got some really nice graphics.

Was that big funk on the graphics?

No, that was me guys.

Oh, Roberts. It was funk, but Roberts twisted. No.

Taking votes from funk and now taking credit, too.

Cmc got first-place votes from, let's see, Everybody except for Claybon, who went with Tyreek Hill, and I gave CeeD Lam some love. I'm in a love affair with CeeD right now. But it was CMC finishing first, Tyreek Hill, distant second, 38 points, CeeD third, 28 points, Josh Allen, 15 points, Dak, with six points, which tells you, yeah, the quarterbacks are floating in another world. Why Tyreek over CMC Patrick?

I was just looking at who stood out the most among their peers, and I don't think you could say anybody came even close to what Tyreek did as a wide receiver this year, especially those past couple, when Tyreek was not 100% and he was still dominating in many aspects of the game. He hobbles on the field to make a game-winning play. That just sent me over the edge, not necessarily that... I knew Christian was going to get some votes, and maybe there were some vote chicanery with leaving Christian off of my offensive player of the year.

Took him off entirely. Wow. It didn't help you.

It did not ultimately matter. That's a strategy, though. Yeah. I like that. It's weird people do it all the time and never acknowledge it. I will acknowledge it as trash, but I tried and I failed.

Oh, that's interesting. Does that actually happen? Yes.

Especially in baseball.

Oh, my God. Ridiculous. All right, let's move to... Unless anybody else has something out there.

I like that both me and you gave Kyren Williams some love as a fourth place. A little pop.

What a year. What a difference maker for that offense in Los Angeles. All right, Defensive Player of the Year. Now, this is a wide open year because I thought Miles Garrett, obviously, was a leader early on, and then he gets banged up and the production dips. So that opened the door. Could anyone walk in that door? Here is the winner with 68 votes. I don't like saying points. For some reason, it doesn't have the same...

No, votes makes sense. Yeah.

Gravitas. Sure. 68 votes. Miles Garrett wins it. Mark, congratulations. Tj Watt. Even though he picked up a couple of sacs there before going down with the injury in week 17. 38. 38 votes. Mika Parsons, 33 votes. Max Crosby got seven. I forgot about Max, sorry. And Daron Bland was seven who had all those pick sixes. That happens, too.It does.I just started paying attention. I missed the Zay flowers, too.

Eric knows that I was working on this, toiling right up to the final minutes, and there were-Oh, were there edits?

I don't know how much he wants me to pull back the curtain, but it was-No, what happened? How many edits?

I wouldn't call them edits. It was addition. I didn't understand the assignment out of the gate in terms of going five deep with everyone. You wolfed it?

So he gave me the winner, and then he gave me the top three, and then he gave me the top five.

It doesn't matter if it was an hour.

It was like a reveal.

I wanted to make it Add an element of showmanship drama to it.

That's the next level showmanship when it's just you and the producer, private.

He wasn't asking for that. It was funny.

How did Coleen do with the assignment, by the way?

Great. One email. Good for her. And an extra your mom in there. She was on point yesterday.

Let's see the way this broke down. Miles got first-place votes from Sestog, Connie, Shook, Claybon, Randy, and Eric. Greg, you gave him a second-place vote, and I gave him a third-place vote.

You went TJ Watt. I went Micah Parsons. Again, I think those three are all really strong. I tend to think Miles Garrett will win, but I think TJ Watt has a real this chance.

I think it'll be closer.

Yeah, I think it'll be closer than this vote.

Actually, no, because they don't do the MVP-style voting for anything other than MVP.

So this is just one pick and done. But even then it could. I believe when TJ Watt won it before, I could be wrong. That was one of those years. He had less than 20 votes, but he had the most votes. Something similar could happen. Parsons' pass is just my, I think he's the best. Then there is some good numbers for it. He does have way more pressures than anyone in the league. His pass-rush win rate is significantly better than anyone. Miles Garrett is a strong number two there, and then it's a pretty big drop to number three. Parsons faces the most amount of double teams in the league. He's beaten double teams the most. I think T. J. Watt would be a good vote. I think Garrett, who is my second place, would be a great vote, too. But just pulling them apart, once I saw those numbers, I was like, That was enough for me to just back what my gut tells me.

Which is, by the way, why I threw Aaron Donald a vote because his pop the hood metrics are all still dominant. He's always commanding all those double and triple teams, and still, he was setting the table for your boy, young Kobe, this season.

You think he's been better than Miles Garrett this season?

No, he voted him. I had him at the bottom of the bar. Like a fifth place.

But I gave him a vote. I had Garrett third. I think that's the thing about Garrett. It could really go any of those three, honestly.

It does come down, I think, also just the experience of watching football and the player itself, because I completely hear your argument for Michael and also for TJ. But I think like, Garrett has been at a defensive player of the year level throughout the last couple of seasons, and this was just a little bit more of a special performance on a special defense.

I do actually like rewarding him. It was one reason why I had him second versus third versus Tiji Watts. Tiji Watts already won one. I do think that's okay to take into account. Like, James Harrison won one, and he was very deserving a couple of times. He won it. It was I think Pacino winning for a cent of a woman. He won it in the year that I didn't think he should have won it, but I was like, It was good that he won it. I thought it was good. I think that's okay for Miles Garrett.

Why not? Well, in terms of my ethics, I give it to the best man.

It's like a make-up call in which instance you have two bad calls instead of one.

Yeah, but if you're just breaking ties or whatever.

But you were talking about your personal level of integrity when it comes to being forthright with people earlier. I just said it. I wrote that down for myself, by the way. I want to tell you, best man for the job. That's my credo. That's where I stand. Mark, you're next later in the show.

I believe Miles Garrett was the best player.

No, I want something more like a personal stand. Oh, I could.Dance on integrity that you have.I'll.

Try to cook one up.I'm.

Saying with big life decisions, like firing a man. Yes, I was saying that. Important decision.I'm.

Not questioning what you're saying.Let's go. I'm just saying I was sharing some ethics.

Best man. We're all the better for it, Dan.

All right, let's move to where are we at now. Offensive rookie of the year. This one was surprising. Hit it. Hit the...

What is that called again? It's a drum roll.

No, it's timpani. That's what it is. It's the timpani. Timpani? By the way, someone… Sorry. Somebody on Twitter gave me something really… Something to chew on that I loved it. Here it is from Hugh Robertson. People were wondering, those people being me, what do you call it when you're strumming the harp?

I would say strumming.

That's what I thought, too. Hugh Robertson tells us that this, Hugh Robertson tells us that flourish on the harp leading into New Horizons Monday is called a glissando. That's a word. A cascade of notes rippling into each other, not unlike the woes currently befalling the Philadelphia Eagles.

What a beautiful tweet.

Heed the call. Great tweet. Let me hear that again.

This is a glissando.

That was multiple. That was glissando.

Glissandos. When there's two, it's Glesandos. All right, now give me the timpani because it's time to announce the offensive rookie there. This one was closer than I thought it was going to be, but with 65 votes. You know it's the quarterback of the Houston Texans. He's getting ready to knock out Marks Brown. C. J. Stroud. The offensive rookie of the year for around the NFL. Just narrowly edging out Puka Nakuwa by 10 votes, 65 to 55. First-place votes for C. J. From Zuzer, Greg, Mark, Kaleen, and Shuk, Second place votes from Claybon, Funk, and Eric. First place votes to Puka for those last three names. Mark, it's Stroud, though. Stroud wins it.Not.

In a landslide for us.Puka Shuka has been incredible. He broke a record dating back to 1960, and from wire to wire, he was a fascination. I mean, for me, it's a degree of difficulty. Like C. J. Stroud coming in and right away doing things that you'd expect a quarterback to do in year three and four and looking like a potential... I thought at times, a possible MVP candidate, and Shuka gave him an MVP vote. It's like, Stroud has completely changed the organization, and I just think I give that a little bit more to you than wide receiver?

Yeah, I struggle with that because I would want to give it to a receiver if he was that exceptional as a receiver. He has a case to be made, maybe not all pro, but second-team all pro. They were top four wide receivers in the league. But Stroud, to me, was a top six quarterback in the league. If Stroud wasn't this exceptional, then I would have gone Puka. You look at some of the previous winners. Puka would have won it over Garrett Wilson. Jamar Chase is close. Herbert would have been close. Kyler, I would have said he would have wanted over Saquon, Kamara, maybe not Dak. That was an incredible rookie year. It had to be a really special rookie year to beat out Puka, but I think Stroud that year.

Yeah, I think you're right. This is one of those you look back and, wow, a quarterback who hit the ground running as a star. Then you can understand why people are tossing drinks in Charlotte because you had a chance and passed on that man. By the way, I threw Bijan a vote.

I was surprised to see that.

You know what, Greg, you had mentioned that I think he finished over 1400 total yards, and it was a lot of incompetence around him.

You had a fifth-place vote.

In the play calling, and just almost a nod of appreciation that I still see you as a potential superstar. So thank you for doing your best in trying circumstances.

The bottom of the list was more mixed up. Sam Laporte was a strong third, and yeah, he would have been a good candidate in a lot of years. Jaden Reid and Jamir Gibbs were tied for fifth. Tank, I assume that's not Tank Bigsby. No, I don't think so. That's DelDog. Tank Del. Yes. I don't know why I had Tank Bigsby on their brain. Jordan Addison gets a little vote. Achan gets a vote. Zee flowers gets four.

There we go. All right, let's move to Defensive Rooky of the Year. This one I struggled with, but here we go. Defensive Rooky of the Year. The winner is... Just like the Jets last year, the Texans sweep the category. Will Anderson, the defensive end, wins it with 63 votes. We have Jalen Carter, the Eagles defensive of tackle, 38 votes. And then Witherspoon of Seattle gets 25. That's the top three. Young Kobe just misses out on a medal, 24 points, 24 votes. Excuse me. I struggled with this one, guys. For instance, I gave Will Anderson a third-place vote, and Greg, I see you gave him a second-place vote, and then everyone else gave him first-place vote, except for, excuse me, Shook, who gave him a second-place vote as well. Mark, what was your thinking on this one?

I think Will Anderson is the player that helped the Texans in every aspect of what his position is. He was good against the run. He's a good pass rusher. He hit the ground running, looking like the guy from the start. For me, I thought Jalen Carter and the whole Eagles experience probably tinged my thinking there a little bit, but I think the Houston Texans best draft class around.

If there was a more cohesive and consistent defensive, not just plan, but effort from Philadelphia, it might have changed things. But to watch Will Anderson playing hurt towards the end of the year, still impact the games, whereas the Eagles defense is all of us.

See, I was the only one that gave Carter a first-place vote because I was Looking at some of the production and then the analytics.

His pass-rush win rate and everything like that.

His ranking is not amongst rookies. He is already one of the very best defensive tackles in the league in terms of all the generating pressure and just being a cog in the middle of that defense. He's already a star. I didn't want to penalize him because the rest of the defense has completely fallen off a cliff.

Yeah, I thought those three players, and I would put Kobe Turner in there, were so close that I actually… I tried to figure out there is almost nothing separating these three guys. You could make different arguments, I think, for all of them. I think I voted Kobe Turner first. The producers didn't give him even a fifth-place vote.I gave him a fifth-place vote. I gave him a second-place vote. Once again, I just wonder about handing them this much responsibility. That's why he was, Oh, shoot. I didn't know. Ivan Pace gets third place, and we can't get Kobe Turner. Oh, damn. Kobe Turner plays interior defensive line, so he only had eight or nine less pressures than Will Anderson. He was in the top 10 of all defensive tackles in terms of interior pressures. Now, Jalen Carter actually was slightly ahead of him, even, too. I thought, Okay, is Aaron Donald setting him up? Then you think, Has Aaron Donald ever have a defensive tackle? Literally have any stats next to him? No. That didn't seem like it's a really strong argument. There wasn't much separating all these guys. They all were very good in terms of their The Last Rush win rate.

Will Anderson was probably the best run stopper, but I gave it to Turner. Give him a little extra love. Claybon didn't give him anything either. Oh, jeez. Yaya Diaby gets a fourth. Why do you hate him?

I thought Greg would like Yaya Diaby.

No, I I like that one. I like that. That's fun. You disappointed Greg.

It's Devon Witherspoon that Greg hates.

No, I put him fifth, and he came in third.

Well, that's Brian Branch.

I put Branch. Okay, so then leave me alone.

All right, finally, we got to bring this thing in for a landing. The Coach of the Year. It's the Coach of the Year. Very competitive this season. D'amico. D'amico Reines wins it. Surprise Surprising. Do we have the voting grid on that one? With 68 votes, Stefansky, who was my first-place pick, comes in a deep second.

He only got two first-place. Only you and I voted Stefansky first.

Then Kyle Shanahan gets 12 points, Shane Steik in 11, Dan Campbell, seven. That's the top five. Okay, Claybon, who did you have first?

I had Demeco first.Tell us why. We don't have to go back too far where there's a prosperity gospel/commedian guy, surreptitiously recording meetings in Houston. They fire back-to-back coaches. There's all sorts of stuff happening. Then D'Mico comes in. They have a candidate for offensive rookie of the year, defensive rookie of the year. They're in the playoffs in a division that we did not think the Texans would win. I think, considering all of that, D'Amico was the coach of the year.

I really struggled with this one because-It was my second one. I think he fits. He checks every box. I think the thing about Stefansky that that outweighed everything else for me was if you knew any team going into the year would have five quarterbacks. It's an obvious argument, but to survive all that and really have bad quarterback play through 85% of the season and He's going to stay afloat, that's good coaching. I think that he also is someone... His demeanor, after so many years of wreckage in Cleveland, he's just got this calm, cool demeanor, and he's now won it twice, and he's been the same guy the entire time.

Well, we'll see if he wins This makes me think maybe Demeco Ryan's-Well, he's won it here.

He has not won it here.

I have, I'm with you.

It's a win. It's a W. He won it with me. But like, yeah.

That was why I went over our over-unders the other day. The Watson thing was so overpowering that I thought that got in the way of looking at the roster and that there was talent on both sides of the ball. They got the coaching, the defensive coordinator looked like an upgrade. But what ended up happening was you lose Watson, even wasn't playing at a high level, you lose Chubb. For them to somehow not only-The offensive line. For them not only to survive it, it's not like they snuck into the playoffs at 9:08. They had 11 wins going into the last week of the season and then rested their starters. I just think Stefansky deserves so much credit for that. With the Flacko magic, Flacko deserves obviously the most credit. But Flacko was, for the Jets and anyone else the last five years, a very hit or miss proposition, usually a miss, and now he's playing like an all pro, and Stefansky is an offensive dude. I think this is his award. I'd be very surprised if D'Amico actually gets it.

I think D'Amico has a chance just because they won six games in the last two years, and that's a big deal. I think it goes into what are you rewarding for? The whole job of coaching. I think Stefansky did that exceptionally as well because you're not judging him on his offensive production. That That's one little ding against him. As well as he's done making them competitive, especially late in the season, they're 27, 28th in EPA for a play, and he's an offensive coach. But he was good at hiring Jim Schwartz and getting everything together. But I think Dameco Ryan's There is something that you can't even calculate. I think Kyle Shanahan, that's why I had him so high, too. I think I had him second or third. I can't remember who I had between Stefansky and Shanahan. But everything that goes into it, not just calling the players, hiring the coaches, helping to bring in the players, everything. Ryan's changed that culture, but Stefansky has, too. So either one would be good.

Yeah, I feel like this award has been relative to the expectations for a very long time.

Mike Smith won it multiple times. Come on. It's like the expectations were low because Mike Smith was the coach. Tava.

Dennis Allen is going to win next year, baby.

All right, good stuff. Those are our awards. You'll get the actual... Well, these are the actual awards, in my mind, but the ones that are seen as gospel, you have to wait till NFL honors a few days before the Super Bowl. We're going to be back on Thursday with the preview of Super Wild Card Week. And I think it's going to be one of the most competitive and compelling ones ever. So thank you for listening so far this week. And more to come. And Patrick, you've said it all. Anything to add?

Yes. If the Saints started Jameis Winston next year and he lost every single game and had one tie, he and Dennis Allen would have the same win-loss record percentage-wise. So there it is. Wow.

Okay, that's good.

It's a fact, dude.

That's a fact. Jack. All right. Till Thursday. Heed the call..