Good drive.

Now put together by the Jaguars 10th play. First down at the 22, quick throw, Ingram looking for blocks, getting blocks, and his first touchdown of the year. Third down in about a yard and a half extra men on the rush. This one, floated, caught by Chase, and he is gone.

Touchdown, Cincinnati, as he takes it into the end zone. He beat Tyson, Campbell, and 76 yards later. The Bengals have their first lead of the night. Evan McPherson, who will try to end it from 48 yards away.

He.

Got it. He got it indeed. Evan McPherson pipes it in overtime for the Bengals, a game that Cincinnati desperately needed if they had any hopes of staying in the AFC playoff picture, they get it done on the road, knocking off the Jaguars 34-31, a thriller and one of the best prime time games of the year. Dan Hans is here with Mark Cessler and Greg Rosenthal. And Mark, this is why you can't judge a book by the cover because we were all talking about what a bummer this game was going to be. Jake Browning in for Joe Borough. This should have been Lawrence V. Borough in a showdown of two AFC elites. Well, we didn't get Borough, but we got Jake Browning playing like Joe Borough and that allowed us to enjoy a classic. I guess you have to also mention because you can't get out of a big game this season with a terrible injury. Trevor Lawrence exits this game with what looked like a pretty nasty ankle injury. As we tape this, we're waiting to find out more.

Yeah, I mean, there were a rash of moving parts to this one. You're so right. I feel like we come out of these huge island games so often this season with a bittersweet feeling because it's like watching what happened to Trevor Lawrence and we'll wait and see. It was just like it changes everything that can happen to the jaguars. But that's how I felt about The Bengals. Even as we were leaving the office, we were saying, Maybe we'll cover the game for 10 or 12 minutes, then we can dive into news and make the show about something else. We get a classic. And the one thing I remember reading a couple of weeks ago about Browning, and I mentioned it on a Thursday show before he appeared for the first time, that they were behind the scenes saying they just felt that he had this calm and confidence and that they felt that they could run their same offense with him. That just sounds like a malarchy until you really see it. But what we got tonight, I thought, was just one of the most exciting performances from a backup you could ever imagine. I mean, he's 32 for 37.

He completely works with Jamar Chase. The offense was totally functional. I thought he threw with total confidence. And I don't know what will happen with any of these teams, the AFC. You've got four AFC teams right now in the playoff picture at the moment, number of seeds one through seven that have major quarterback injuries. And the Bangles are hovering around. And if you get this version of a backup quarterback behind Joe Borough, I don't know what will happen to them. They have plenty of other talent. This was a revelation, and I think it just stunned me in real time, Greg, just to watch it unfold.

Yeah, it was just an incredible game. The Lawrence injury changes what we think about Jackson. We'll find out more about how long it is because they're eight and four. They're in good position. They're one game ahead of the Texans, although we'll get to their defense. If their defense, if McManus could have kicked a go-ahead field goal with five minutes to go and then their defense holds onto it there, this would have been just such a big win to bank before possibly losing, Lawrence. But we don't know if it's just going to be a couple of games or if it's the rest of the season or anything, or maybe it won't be anything. Jake Browning, though, changes how we look at this race too and how you look at when you're going to play the Bengals. The key play, and we heard on the highlight, was that long throw to Chase. Just because I think of what it showed had already been happening in that game. I mean, he started out 14 for 15 for 150. But on that play, they send the blitz. Mike Caldwell, the Jaguars defensive coordinator, loves to send pressure because he doesn't really get natural pressure.

They have Josh Allen and they don't really have anyone else. They don't have Trayvon Walker. They don't have any push upfront. You figure against Jake Browning, you're going to be able to heat him up. And every time they sent the blitz early, he always knew right where to throw it. Occasionally, it was tipped. It didn't work. Sometimes they got the Bengals guy down before first down, but not usually. But on that Chase touchdown, he throws a beautiful ball to Chase against their best Jaguars cornerback, Tyson Campbell. It goes for a long touchdown. Campbell struggled all night. They lose their slot corner. Trey Hernden, right away, who's played really well for them. Suddenly, they're struggling with injuries. And it's Jake Browning who has the wherewithal to be picking on mismatches in the Jaguars secondary. You're right, Dan. If Burrow had this exact same performance, we would just be talking about what a classic Burrow game. And instead, it was a classic Jake Browning game right down to the Figure 8 scramble and overtime to set up the game winner.

I mean, in Crunch Time, on the road, in a game with your season on the line, this guy is calmly going through his progressions and connecting with the receivers to lead that offense. And Zach Taylor, I know we will butt heads on him occasionally, but you don't get a backup that plays at this level without having a sound operation. We're going to get to the jets a little later. That's like the other end of the spectrum. I think this shows you that Taylor really has a strong handle on his offense, and they identified a backup quarterback that even though we didn't see him, they saw him. And you heard a lot of great things about Browning, and this is all going to come out beyond, remember, before we saw him play, Oh, he was awesome in high school because there was really nothing to go off with him yet. Now we see how he played in this game. We heard that he was spending his day offs in the defensive backs meetings, studying, waiting for his opportunity. Now he has a chance to become a really interesting story in the AFC. Here's some news from Tom Pelliciro, the Pell Razor himself.

Jack's quarterback, Trevor Lawrence, his initial diagnosis is a sprained ankle with an MRI to follow Tuesday. Okay, so the good news there is that he didn't come out of the X-ray room and they said, Oh, he has a broken ankle, which certainly seemed like it was within the range of outcomes. But we're not out of the woods yet because you don't know if he has ligament damage. You look at what just happened with Pickett in Pittsburgh. He needed surgery. We'll find out how serious this ankle issue is, but at least the ankle didn't snap and we have an issue like that. So, Jaguars fans, at least you at this point, maybe avoided a worst-case scenario.

We'll find out more on that. I really agree with you about Zach Taylor, who's... I used to kill him all the time. Greg is not a huge fan. I think part of what was happening with Zach Taylor during even the successful string of time was that the offensive line that we're having issues, you didn't see them adjust. And I thought they did a lot of six-man protection tonight to help Browning. The other thing was their run defense had been a complete disaster in recent days, and they couldn't run the ball. And both of those things changed tonight. So I don't know if this is a situation where the Bangles have turned a corner or it happened in a special situation tonight, but they played a really good defense. And to see what they did, as a holistic offense, Is what I thought was a big turning point. And the same way that Matt LaFlor is getting a lot of credit for the past couple of weeks with a young quarterback. This has some fingerprints or some evidence that Zach Taylor does have some ability to grow a quarterback. I mean, just to see where he was from a week ago to now, there aren't that many things happening like this with quarterbacks, with the development is that quick.

Zach Taylor is making me eat some humble pie tonight. This is one of the most impressive nights, I think, of his career because of what what you guys said, because it shows all the work and the judgment they've been doing for three years. We cover the game closely. I have to admit, I did not understand throughout the season that Jake Browning graduated from Washington, where he racked up all those numbers, and he had 91 touchdowns in high school, going up against Morris Jones-Drews School, apparently in one season, including one game against Morris Jones-Drews School. He was saying, That was back in 2011. He graduated from college in 2018. He's been bouncing around the NFL first as an undrafted free agent for the Vikings for three years and not sticking on roster and the practice squad and the offseason and all that stuff. Then with the Bengals organization for three years. So it actually reminded me a little bit of Sunday Night and Jordan Love, someone that's been in an organization and understands the offense. And he obviously doesn't have the talent that a Jordan Love does or Joe Burrow does, but he does have a style that will work.

I think that style is a little more agro, is a little more throw the ball down the field. I was really impressed by Zach Taylor going for it on fourth down to start the game. Remember, it didn't work. He's at midfield and you go for it with Jake Brown. I was like, That's very unlike, Zach Taylor, he doesn't do that with Joe Borough. At the end of the game, he's going for the win when they only have 35 seconds. Nick Ciriani wasn't doing that for Jaylen Hurtson. I thought so many times, fourth down at the end of the game when Jamar Chase drops it, and again, Jake Browning is dropping back and he calmly gets it to Chase. You're right, Mark. Everyone lifted up Browning too. The running game was fantastic. Chase, I think, made a number of great catches on balls that weren't perfect. It was awesome. But it does start with Brownie and it starts with Zach Taylor and the game plan that they put together for him.

32 of 37, Brownie was for 354 yards, averaged over nine and a half yards per attempt. One touchdown, passing one touchdown, rushing. No turnovers, pass rating, one-fifteen and a half. Brilliant. It's a fun scene. It reminded me of the Mike White game, ironically, against the Bangles were a similar situation where there's a team that had no hope. Then all of a sudden, this guy that had no track record is lighting it up. You could tell, and I think, Zach Taylor spoke about it after the game tonight. Once you see this unknown start to ball out, the whole confidence of the team rises up. They just kept on going punch for punch with the Jacks. Even when it was a great night for Taylor overall, but he started to get a little cute in spots, including that devastating Tyler Boyd pass attempt that looked like a potential turning point where the Jaguars would take control of the game. Yet they couldn't because Cincinnati kept fighting back. They're a really, I would think you guys agree because I think we're all on the same page. We were seeing Cincinnati as an afterthought in this AFC playoff race, the way things were trending.

But now it's going to be really interesting to see where they stack up. Starting with next week, they get the Colts, another team that was left for dead, and then all of a sudden, they're waving their hands like, No, we have a chance to get to the dance. A nice little shot of adrenaline for the AFC.

Much needed. By the way, I just got a text from nick Wesleyan, Bad night for me, you, and all the Zach Taylor haters. But it's good to be proven wrong on a night like this because of what you said. It adds so much value, I think, to the Bengals who are in some big games against good teams. A lot of matchups against playoff type teams. It's going to make it more interesting. I think you saw what I've been saying about the defense, especially the past defense, is just it's not it. That was the thing that was exciting about this game was, Trevor Lawrence was playing really well, too. It almost felt like sometimes he was responding to Browning. Every time Browning and the Bengals went down the field, it's like Lawrence suddenly had a wow, rifle shot to answer him. It was just back and forth, touchdown after touchdown. But you're right, there was that sequence where Trevor Lawrence through his worst pass of the night should have been picked off in the end zone. But Dax Hill just mismanages it, essentially drops it. It goes through his hand, and it turns out to be a Parker Washington touchdown for the Jaguars.

That's a seven-point swing, and almost like two plays later is that interception. You're thinking, okay, finally, the Bengals are going to just go run away with this game. But I mean, the Jaguars are going to run away with this game. But their defense wasn't good enough, Mark. It does concern me because I'm always thinking a good defense is always a few weeks away from just being like, Oh, yeah, they're just average again. They did get their doors blown off by SanFrancisco. I know that was San Francisco. I know that was San Francisco. That happens to everyone. But they got their doors blown off tonight in every facet. Chase Brown, everything was going well for Cincinnati.

Yeah, I think in another world, because even C. J. Bethard came in and he almost stole this game away. And there's this play that stands out in my mind where it's this incredible deep shot and Calvin Riddley makes an incredible catch down inside the five. And then that's yanked away by a holding call because if that had stood, we're talking about a completely different end of the situation. And I think you would have been right to steal this game if you were Jacksonville would have been immense. We'll see what happens with Lawrence. But I like a game like this because it changes where we are with this AFC playoff race, which is a little... It's a little bit of a prospect to me if you look at the bottom couple of teams in here.

All right, here's Doug Peterson when asked about the status of his star quarterback. I don't have any information yet on Trevor. We're still evaluating him. He'll have more tests and things done here tonight and tomorrow. I'll probably have a better update for you tomorrow on that. But I mean, yeah, we had position players go down. But look, that's part of the game. It happens and it's unfortunate. But next guy up has to be ready to go and play. I thought the guys that filled in were just that, they were ready to go. Listen, Carson, Doug Peterson has been through the wars. Once upon a time, Carson Wentz blew out his ACL for an Eagles team, blowing through the regular season and everyone thought the season was over and then they won the Super Bowl with nick Foles. He's hoping they could just weather the storm here. But itwas a really bad night to lose at home. I know, Browning now we look at him differently. But going into this game, you got a Bangles team limping without Joe Borough coming into your house in prime time, and to lose that game and to lose Trevor Lawrence and to lose Christian Kirk who went out with a groin injury, and really to lose, to me, your real chance to somehow if they would have won out, which was unlikely, they were the number one seed and they're still in the mix for that.

But you're going to… I think you're going to remember this is the night they let that slip away as well. They have a lot to recover from, obviously.

They play the Browns next week and the Ravens the week after that. That Ravens game, especially, was going to be really important for them not only to get the one seed but to try to cement the division because they don't necessarily have the tie breaker over Houston. That's to be determined. They split the season series. They're one-up. Cleveland gets a little bit of a break here, assuming they don't see Lawrence next week. Cg Bethard is a little different as a backup just because we've seen him play in the NFL before. We've seen him play for the Jaguars before, not extensively because Lawrence has been durable. But Bethard was out there looking like he thought he was Michael Vick. He's not the worst backup in the league, but he probably has a lower... I think it's fair to say he's established, he just has a lower ceiling of what his potential outcomes are, and their defense and their run game can't play like this around CJ Bethard, that Brown's game is going to be a toss up at best, and they'll be heavy underdogs if they don't have Lawrence back for the Ravens. Then the schedule eases up down the stretch if they can get Lawrence back for the playoffs.

I think the thing that you mentioned about the Browns getting a break because of potentially with the Trevor. I feel like half the AFC and half the NFL are getting breaks week.

To week. Everyone that plays the Browns, obviously, is getting huge breaks. That's a good point.

There are, I think, next week, five tilts that include a backup versus a backup. It's like we're in that.

Part of the chaotic end of the season. I think we're getting to the point where it's mathematically impossible to just have two games with starting quarterbacks that were there in week one, which is a bummer. We're going to stay positive tonight because it was a great game and fun to watch. But this is a plot line of the season that's going to mar it when you look back at it. This is the year. I mean, it started obviously with the injury and how dramatic that was on Monday night. It just feels like every week there's something new. I mean, look at the Bangles. A couple of weeks ago, we're watching that game and they have that dramatic shot of him on the sideline trying to throw and then dropping down to his knee. Too much of that. Too much. The game is just not the same without good quarterback. So even more reason to say, Jake Browning, thank you. We needed that. We needed that. All right, let's take a break and then we'll get to the news. All right, welcome back to you round the NFL. Monday Night Football, out of the way. Week 13, out of the way.

How about that? Week 14, right around the corner. Let's get caught up on the news starting with Shaq Leonard. It's finally done. He has made his decision, and it will be the Philadelphia Eagles who he suits up for. Leonard, the former All-Pro, released in a surprise move by the Cults last week. He will join a Philly team. Greg that certainly can use a lift in the middle of their defense. They've been getting carved up. We just saw it with San Francisco. I guess my one take from this, Greg, is he's a big name brand. But as Wes was known to say that the game no longer matches the name. So unless a change in scenery allows him to recapture a spark, I'm not sure how much this move makes the Eagles better, but I guess it's worth a roll of the dice.

Right. He was not playing a ton on passing downs for the Colts, but he was playing a lot. He was playing 30, 40 snaps a game. It wasn't like he was benched. I can't say he was making a ton of splash plays or that he stood out good or bad. To me, PFF had him graded fairly well, just like as a solid starting linebacker. If he's that and they have a good way of really bringing out the best in veterans, I think he'll help them. But the way I've heard Eagles fans talk about it, it's like they think they're getting three-time-all pro Shaq Leonard and that he's going to save them at that position. That seems unrealistic to me. It also seems to be missing the point, which is that they have a lot of issues in that secondary. It's not just the linebackers like Darius Slay, James Bradbury. Everyone's giving up way too much and is not the same as they were a year ago and their front hasn't been as special as they need it to be. What's Shaq Leonard really going to do? He should be a little bit of an upgrade from nick Morrow.

But I think in the local markets in Philly and Dallas, this was treated like it was a huge sweepstakes, and it probably isn't going to change that much.

I think it's a little bit baked into the fact that there's photos being released all over the place of Big Dom taking a tour around with Shaq Leonard and being part of the process to recruit him... I don't know. That was like- What?

Dom just showed... No, was this before?

No, Big Dom was like, No, as a security guy. He was the guy that brought Shaq down. But I would say this, why not take a shot? It really only matters how you perform if you're the Eagles against the cowboys and the Niners when we really get there. And like, Nacoby Dean banged up, Zach Cunningham banged up. We just saw they give up 456 yards. So if it clicks, it clicks. And it's like the Eagles are like the NFC version for me of the Ravens, where they go get this player that someone else wanted to trade or move on from, and it works? So it's like, why not try? It's hard to get a good player this time of year.

Right, they've done it. And the thing that's really interesting, and I'll leave it at that, is that there are no financial repercussions here. It's a very rare chance where a player is actually just choosing which team do I want to go to for whatever reason? To win? Which team has given me a better chance to win, to play, whatever. Because the Colts are playing his contract, either way, it's all guaranteed. They're the ones paying. It's pretty interesting. He's choosing between the Eagles and the Cowboys. I figured he'd choose the Cowboys just because that seems like a more fun place to go live or whatever. He picks the Eagles and they play the Cowboys this week.

That's juicy. Obviously. I'm trying to find the article, but the whole Big Dom story really took an almost erotic turn when a former, I believe, offensive lineman for the Eagles, a member of the Super Bowl team, and I apologize for not having his name off the top of my head, was quoted as saying that he would give his life for Big Dom. It's like, All right. What's going on there?

His life. It's a blood oath. Once you're in with Big Dom, you're in for life. You're either in or you're out.

Or you're really in. All right, let's talk about the biggest joke in the NFL. My favorite team, the New York Jets. This report from the athletic was one of the big stories in the NFL on Monday. It came from Zach Rosenblatt and Diana Rosini and then Jeff Howe chipping in as well with the athletic that the jets are prepared to make another switch at quarterback after Rogers blows his Achilles. Zach Wilson takes back over the starter. He's bad. They bench him. They bring in Tim Boyle. He sucks. They bench him. They bring in Trevor Simeon. He sucks. Now the idea is what about going back to Wilson? Then the report that Wilson was reluctant to take back the job and the team wants to turn back to Wilson, but he is hesitant to step back into the role. Multiple team sources said Monday. Here's another graph from that report. Aaron Rogers had reached out to Wilson in an effort to advise him to resume the starter role. But at the time, Wilson remained apprehensive due to perceived injury risk per team sources. Okay, and then Robert Sala, and there is not a more emasculated coach in the NFL in recent memory than Sala.

Every week, he is answering questions and being asked to explain things that he has no control over. Now it's come to the point where even the bust quarterback, he doesn't even control him and the ability to make him play quarterback for his team, or so it seems that's not the way Salo is painting it in his press conference. Well, let's be clear. If he was reluctant to play guys, he wouldn't be here. All right, I actually, coincidentally, just got done speaking with him. He came in about a half hour ago, and we had a really good conversation. The young man wants the ball. He wants to start. He believes he's the best quarterback in the room and best quarterback for this team and the guy who gives us the best chance to win. I'll tell you guys the same thing I told him. I appreciate it. I appreciate the fact that he wants to play. I'm just not there yet. Just not there yet. That is even absurd. He's trying to couch that as how you've even made a decision yet. But if I do make a decision, Zach has now told me he wants to play.

Boys, what this sounds like to me, and tell me if you think it's something else, is the jets who have been completely misguided about their quarterback room since Rogers went down. They finally get sick of Wilson struggles. They bench him for the second or third time since he was the number two overall pick. They say to him a couple of weeks ago, Hey, we're really sorry. This is not going to work out. We're going to go in a different direction. Not only are we going to demote you, we're going to essentially deactivate you. Then after the season's over, we'll find a way to part ways and best of luck to you. Because the jets are such a poorly run organization, they underestimate how bad these other quarterbacks in their building are. When those guys are making them completely non-competitive, they go back to Zach and say, Zach, we need you again. Zach Wilson saying, bro, you are not bringing me back next year. I am sick of being your whippin' boy. I'm not safe playing in front of that offensive line, and I'm trying to restart my career next year, and I know you don't like me.

So why should I play from you? For you? I've thought about this a lot, boys. I think Zach Wilson is an anti-hero. I think Zach Wilson is telling the jets, You are incompetent, so you could take this, quote-unquote, job and shove it. I know my dad is totally on the other side of this and thinks it's a disgrace that he would ever do that. But I have to say, I understand where Wilson is coming from, if indeed that is what the backstory is here.

I think that's a great positing of the situation. I don't know if he had any promises that you're done for the season or anything like that. That doesn't make sense to me. I'm somewhere in the middle that I understand that viewpoint of him sticking it to them. I just think it's career suicide to really not want to play. You're not playing for the organization. You're playing for your teammates. That's what they always say. Ultimately, in a situation like this, you're playing for your career to put something on tape to try to continue to get it going, to get a positive grade, to show something, and you're playing for your teammates. You feel like you owe it to them. When I saw these reports, I just thought, I never heard of something like this. This is some ridiculousness. I was just thinking, and we can get into it. I want you to go, Mark, but I just was like, What is the motivation of this even getting out there? Is someone trying to paint him poorly? Diana reported that it was coming from many parts of the organization that they had heard this. Players, coaches, staff had all heard this.

Then after she reported, Jeff Howe has this report, which just took my breath away. Quote, if Zach Wilson were asked directly by the jets to start, he would agree to that. A source familiar with Wilson's thinking that, What are we doing here? I honestly don't even have a take. My take is, What is happening? That is the wildest thing I've ever heard as a reporter. I don't even know what that is.

It's insane. Yeah, I've been reduced to the same place where when we say they want him to start or they told him X, Y, or Z, it's hard. This is true of the jets too many seasons and is true of bad teams. Who is even they at this point? Because the coach seems to be almost outside the bubble of decision making and explaining things that he doesn't have full accountability for on some level, and that creates a sense of confusion. If you are a Zach Wilson, it's been an absolute disastrous experience to go out on the field because I think part of it is he doesn't really have the support of his teammates. There's evidence that a lot of his offensive teammates feel like if you're Garrett Wilson, my career is falling apart because of this quarterback situation in New York. The team is falling apart. The defense is on fire about the whole thing. And so it's not an enjoyable thing.

To be Zach Wilson. You got to play, though, or else you got to.

Get out of the building. I would say one thing. His resume on tape is a mess. But I think because you have a first round pedigree, another team would say, We can fix what the jets couldn't fix, because that makes some sense. But if you're saying basically, My desire to go out and be a teammate and play potentially doesn't exist, then it's like, Cool, we don't need your ability isn't there. It's not like you're a special talent. You're not Jeff George and you're difficult. You're just Zach Wilson. You're not good and you don't really want to play. It's like you are sabotaging and it seems almost immature if that's really what he's saying. That said, I'm not sure I even believe any of that. I don't even know where it's coming from or why, and why anyone would be trying to bury him.

The first report is too... It was not really dismissed by Sala, exactly. I mean, he spoke to him, but he didn't exactly dismiss the initial report. It's too widely spread and too many different things happening for me to doubt that that part is actually... But that is true that he was just saying that, that people are saying that. But for them not to understand that that getting out was totally burying him, or unless it was someone that was intentionally trying to bury him. But it doesn't make sense for anyone to try to intentionally bury him because it's just all bad. It made me think, Dan, and maybe this was overreacting. This was the first time I thought, Oh, Salah is got to go, because this is just embarrassing. You can say this is not Sala's fault for whatever reason, but it's just like, it's all embarrassing. I've asked around a little bit, and I think there's pushback. I think the conventional wisdom is that Sallis stays, but I have my doubts, especially if it keeps going like this.

If he stays, it's because it's a dysfunctional organization that doesn't see that this is too far gone, that he is not the right leader for this team, that Aaron Rogers is the one now running the ship. Everything has played out in an only the jets fashion. In the worst-case scenario, it's embarrassing as a jets fan. I feel like I really am on the ropes right now where I know I can't disconnect from the jets and not be a Jets fan. But I'm getting to the point where apathy is going to start creeping in, I feel like, because I'm just so disgusted talking about them year after year after year as being a joke, the joke of the League. That's why the comment I said about Wilson being an anti-hero, there's something cathartic about Wilson, whether this was his intention or not. Finally, someone is really holding the team accountable and saying, You're a joke. Like ownership, general manager, head coach, offensive court. You guys are a joke. If you think that I'm going to now come try to bail you out after you humiliated me and put me on the bench and deactivated me and told me that it was worse than Tim Boyle, who threw one touchdown and 13 intersections for Yukon and Trevor Simeon.

These are guys that shouldn't even be in the league. You're a joke. Everyone's laughing at the jets. I'm saying it now. Every show, they come up. It's what the joker said to De Niro. You get what you fucking deserve. That's what's happened to the jets. They botched this from week one on. Now they're suffering the consequences. No one feels bad for them because they never saw it coming because they were so filled with confidence and smell on their own, you know what? That they never realized they were this vulnerable, even though everyone else could see it. So how can I, as a jets fan, want't want that head coach back or that general manager back? Or hell, even the quarterback who's done nothing. Nothing. Aaron Rogers has done nothing for my team other than end up indirectly, you could say, cause more embarrassment and more pain and more misery. I'm just sick of it. I'm sick of it. It's one day they're going to do it. They're going to push me too far. It's getting close again.

You could have- Danny's not happy. You don't have to have an unconscious or what is it? Conscious uncoupling. But you could take a break, just be like, I'll see you in six weeks. Just like, you disconnect as much as you can.

Come back to me. But what do I do for a living, Greg?

Well, that's a great point.

Yeah, there's no getting away from them.

All right, let's just move on before my head explodes. The Steelers will be without Kenny Pickett for a while, but hopefully they'll get him back. He had ankle surgery, the Steeler's quarterback, on Monday. He was on the injury report, by the way, because of an ankle injury last week. He aggravated it against Arizona. There's no long term timetable for how long he's going to be out according to Mike Tomlin. They ruled him out, obviously, Thursday's game against the Patriots. Get ready, everybody. Mark, you and I are going to have a fun with that one. Mitch Trabiski will start on Thursday. It's a high ankle sprain.

I feel like we're at the point where there are maybe some larger concerns about Pickett's durability because it's been an array of up and down health issues, concussions, this, that. And Trabiski, I don't really see as vastly different than Kenny Pickett. Greg, I think you're higher on Trabiski than I am. It's another AFC.

Playoff team. I thought we've been talking about this for 20 years.

The Trabiski- It's really just the.

Last two years. It feels like he's been in the league for over.

100 years. This year, it does. I've always been very down, but I liked him for a few moments in Pittsburgh last year. I've liked in Pittsburgh this year than a few times these days.

I just think their floor is... That offensive explosion where they scored 16 points and put up 400 plus yards, quintessential mirage. I just think this team is a... I said they're going to win 12 games, but they're lucky to have as many wins as they do right now. We'll see what happens with Pickett. Thursday night, Dan, I might need you to drop a bomb on my apartment. I'm not sure if I can do it. I'm going to try.

Vegas has the over under at I believe, 30 and a half now, which is the lowest over and under in the NFL in years.

Yeah, I think it's since 2005 and it's going down. I saw that 95 %, I think it was our research, Kate McZurik, I believe, said 95 % of that money is going on the under. So it might keep sinking and sinking until it goes through the floor.

You know what we're going to do? Listeners, I know you're going to think to yourself, there's one episode to skip around the NFL, it's going to be the Thursday Night Football episode. Mark and I are going to cook up a secondary segment so explosive that it will be the one everyone's talking about. People will be talking about our Seg more than they'll be talking about that game.

Three nothings. I appreciate that because I think you're doing us a service as well. Because I just sat through six nothing, Patriots Chargers a day ago. It's like how many swings of the baseball back to the.

Head in the game. It's going to be a shootout compared to what we see on Thursday.

I've seen some reporting that it was the tightrope procedure. By the way, I think Trabiski adds the floor. I might go over here. Just Trabiski is going to throw some PIC 6. He is the James Winston to Kenny Pickett's Derrickar, where it's probably in the end, not going to be any more effective, but it'll just be more chaotic and more points. I saw it reported somewhere that it's the tightrope procedure on Kenny Pickett. They did not put him on IR, and that's a high ankle sprain. That's maybe 2-3 weeks you're out, which is just interesting to think about in context of Trevor Lawrence. We don't know what's going to happen, but Cameron Wolf, just a little update, as we're going, our reporter, NFL Network, is in the locker room there and said he was talking to teammates, Trevor Lawrence was, and they seemed like a little happy after. I mean, he's just reading the tea leaves here. He was on crutches and ended up walking out with a walking boot, putting a little bit of pressure on it, but not much really, as he left. But they said that the teammates weren't in terrible spirits.

Then he was taken out of the locker room on a cart. They do have a cart, Dan. Oh, finally. In Jacksonville. They found the cart. I mean, that was so painful.

What are we doing? It's one thing where you're limping off the field and disappearing. When they cut ESVN, cuts to inside the bowels of that stadium and he's moving about six inches every 30 seconds. It's like, Guys, Shad, do we have something to take the franchise somewhere?

Also, he's 6'6. He's obviously a massively framed quarterback. Even the guys under each one of his shoulders were big dudes, too. But it's like they were not big enough to actually do the job. They're just tugging his body down this hallway. It's technology. You know what would work? How many golf carts are in Jacksonville?

Like a 2,000-pound golf cart with eight wheels and a flat back. That would be perfect for a 6'5, 2'30, built out of stone quarterback dealing with a nasty lower leg injury.

You know what we lost in the shuffle there? Espn did too, is that Walker Little, who you really feel for, he stepped on Lawrence. This is why I've seen some people being like, quarterback's got to learn how to protect themselves. His left tackle stepped on him during the drop back. What do you want? I mean, it was just a play. It's going to happen. Then he fell over it weirdly. Walker Little hurt himself on that play. Walker Little is their starting left tackle because they just lost their starting left tackle, Kim Robinson, for the season. That was a completely catastrophic play on the night. They also lost Kirk and Trey Herndon and foley Fatouhassie. It was just a crazy, terrible night for the Jaguars.

All right. In other news, you know what's going on in New Orleans right now. Everyone's an expert. Everybody knows how to fix the saints and what's wrong with the saints. Everybody thinks it's amazing that there's all this talk going on and all this mocking of people. Isn't it cool that Michael Thomas is sending tweets during the game? I don't know why I'm being so nasty right now, but I.

Think it might have something to do with just- Let the fans be mad like you're mad. They're just mad.

No, but it's Michael Thomas. It's not the fans. I understand their frustration. Michael Thomas is the one who's tweeting, who was once a tremendous player, and now is just a guy and he's once again injured. He's sending cryptic tweets during the game. You all said I was throwing shade. Not at all my eyes just work, check yours. Okay, all that stuff. Obviously taking shots at car after turnover and the team in general and the coaching staff, Dennis Allen was forced to address this on the same day he explained that Derek Carr was going to be missing some time.

Yeah, we'll.

Keep that.

In-house, but I guess I was made.

Aware of that last night. He deleted or took down his Twitter account. Was there, can someone tell him that he had to take the tweets down? I'm not aware of that.

Derek Carr is in the concussion protocol once again, but he's got all sorts of other injuries coming out of that game. So it feels like we're going to get a James Winston Tasom Hill jam this week.

Yeah, Thomas liked a post that, and this was last week actually, people were noticing that, like the post, that joke that car gave Thomas a hospital pass to openly critique him and stir up drama. He had been liking some anti-car-ish tweet. This is what I'm talking about. Then he was watching the game and he was saying, I'm just using my eyes. He was just noticing on the interception, for instance, that there were wide-open receivers on the other side of the field. He's openly.

Being mutiny. I don't think he's down. Probably.

I think he'll be gone and I think they might.

Both be gone. But there's nothing like, I don't know, maybe there are people that disagree. I don't think there's anything cool or edgy or whatever about this. It's just I think you're being a bad teammate and you're using social media to cause more issues. I think he's a joke personally. Thirty years old, grow up.

He's been a distraction. He's been absent. He's not been the player he was. It's like, how many examples of total chaos do we need inside the Saints organization? When you talk about Michael Thomas being away from the team, I think your average Saints fan wants Dennis Allen away from the team. I feel like no matter what happens to them on this journey this season, which has been unpleasant to the eyes, it's going to be a massive offseason of change. If it's not, what are they doing?

I've landed on it, Greg. I think now I understand why I started this conversation the way I did. I've talked about it a lot with Derek Carr that he has been bad this year and he's not worth the money and it was a bad signing. He's been a problem. But I've seen a lot, and you've talked about it a lot, like Saints fans are very angry and frustrated. These Michael Thomas stories has been popping up the last couple of weeks. It's almost like he's being celebrated on some level for calling out this situation. It's like that's part of the problem, too. I feel like the Saints have just a lot of issues internally, and so maybe that is not something to celebrate. But I truly understand where Saints fans are coming from that this has been a very rough season and they have not lived up.

To expectations. Right. Michael Thomas is speaking for them. The most interesting one that he liked last week, I'm trying to find it, was it was from a motivational speaker that was like, weak leaders avoid difficult conversations. The longer you delay, the hard of the conversation gets blah, blah, blah, blah. People basically took that, and I think that's been a criticism of Dennis Allen, that he doesn't know how to manage people. There's been a lot of stories going like that. He's almost afraid to confront his own players. I think he's lost that locker room. Separating the quarterback from this, it feels like a team that is just adrift.

Right now. But Greg, it started with like, John C. Garner. I think had Sean Payton been there, you wouldn't have lost that player.

Right. Yeah, that was the very beginning of it.

I would say one thing to Michael Thomas. I don't know if you're... If you're going diving into difficult conversations when you're liking other people's posts and tweeting, sub-tweeting your own quarterback. That's not having a one-on-one conversation.

Injury news. Derek Henry is not in the concussion protocol and is on track to play in week 14's matchup against the Dolphins. He had two touchdowns in over 100 yards in yesterday's brutal loss to the.

Colts before- Double header next Monday night, guys. We got the little Titan's Dolphins. It's one of them.

Nice. By the way, the Titans fired their special teams coach after miscues, including that block pun that swung that game. Jeffrey Simmons of the Titans will miss a couple of weeks with a knee injury as well, according to Mike Vrabel. That is a big loss for the Titans. Anything to add there, boys?

No. Other than that block pun, unfortunately, ended Ryan Stonehouse's season. Ryan Stonehouse, their punter, I would have guessed, was a shoo in maybe for All-Pro first team. It might still make it. But punters, the kickers get a lot of love on this show. Stonehouse was on a run that rivals any punter, that any punters had probably in the last handful of years. That is a shame.

What a devastating play. I know. You lose one of your top players, your punter, you lose seven points on the board and swings a game that you absolutely needed. Then it gets people fired as well. There are very few plays this season that have been that devastating for one team. It's almost impressive. Yes, it's almost impressive, but really tragic in a way. Circling back to what we were honking about last night with less than a minute to go in Sunday Night Football, Patrick O'Hombs fired a deep ball to Marcus Valdez-Scantling. He was absolutely tackled almost by Karrington-Valentine. They do not throw the flag instead of first and goal from about the five-yard line. The Chiefs are left to scramble and they never do get close after that. Final score, 27-19. You heard the rules guy. Who's the rules guy for NBA again? Mccauley. Mccauley. He was very frank and said, This is not good. There should have been a penalty. Guess what? That night, they trot out Brad Allen, the referee, and explains after the game, that you know what? We didn't get this one wrong. Here's the quote, As you may know, on every play where there may or may not be pass interference, either offensive or defensive, the covering official has to rule whether contact materially restricts the receiver.

In this case, the covering officials were in good position and ruled that there was no material restriction that rose to the level of defensive pass interference. The ball appeared to be catchable for MBS. Allen did not dispute that. I am not aware that catchability was involved. The covering official simply did not feel that there was the level of contact that rose to a material restriction for defensive pass interference. I don't know what to say to that. That's brutal. Either way, it does nothing for the chiefs, Mark, but it's like, at least say you got the call wrong, so we could all just move forward as a society.

Yeah, that would be more pleasant. I guess my thing is you can go read these NFL rule books when you go read some of these paragraphs. It's like, I'm sorry, what's happening? But our eyes, the broadcaster's eyes, our eyes, Terry McCauley's eyes, everyone is looking at this play and saying, This doesn't check out. So whatever the written rule is, maybe we need to examine that. You could say whatever you want, but there's never accountability for these officialiating crews when they blow something.

He sounded like a politician. If you listen closely, you read it closely, they never said that the call was right. All he did was just explain in great detail that the guy was in position, here's the rule, and he thought he was making the right call. It was one of those politicians, non-denial denials where it just said a lot of words. He's like, Well, this is what he ruled. He looked at it. He was in good position and this is what he ruled because this is what he thought. But he missed the point of like, Yes, that's all true. We know he thought he was right, but he was wrong. That's what we want to hear.

Weird, annoying, sucks. All right, finally in the news, this is funny. Greg, you're way more plugged into this world than a marker It's so you can perhaps tell us why these things can change so quickly, but I guess it makes sense. We've been talking about the last few weeks. Brock Purdy, who's having really an excellent season for the Niners, who I think we're all in agreement are the best team in football. Why is he being overlooked in the MVP race? When you look at the odds at the sportsbooks. He was in a distant background a couple of weeks ago when we first started talking about this. Well, after Purdy threw four touchdowns and the Niners blew out the Eagles. That quickly changed to the point now that Purdy is the odds-on favorite to win Super Bowl MVP. In the latest odds, the Niners are also the favorite to win the Super Bowl. Purdy threw for 3, 14, and 4. They're the odds right there. If you're watching on YouTube, Purdy is a plus 300. Daq right behind them at plus 350. I think that checks out. Then it's a little bit of a drop off after that.

Plus 900 for Lamar, plus 1,600 for There you go.

Heardstead plus 350.

There's your boy. And Josh Allen, plus 3,500.

Heardstead plus 3.50 to add plus 7.00. Oh.

Sorry, I was.

Reading it wrong. My bad. Yeah, it's confusing how it was set up just with the two things. These things change fast, though, because they're just a reflection of what Vegas thinks people like us think, which is very nebulous, as you would like to say, especially with eight weeks left in the season. They're just trying to like, What is the average Joe thinking? Essentially. The average Joe wasn't thinking Purdy until now. It's still the field, plus 300 isn't that much of a favorite. I would still say it's way, way, way more likely that Purdy doesn't win than he doesn't, but he has the closest odds. The Daq thing is more interesting to me because I think he was plus 3,000 three weeks ago, and now he's a co-favorite with Purdy and Hertz. I still like Tyreke. I still think actually has a much better chance than those odds indicate.

We may be closer to a season where a Tyreke Hill or someone like that or a Christian McAfrey can rise up and not be a quarterback and win this. But I know we're all of this world that quarterback wins. We just ignore them. It's almost better if you win three games, but you're a pristine player. But honestly, Brock Purdy, I think it matters to voters and generalists that Brock Purdy blew out the Cowboys in the game that Doc didn't play well in. He didn't play well. And he blew out to Eagles in a game that Jalen Hertz played all right in, but it wasn't like Jalen Hertz won. And now, Jack and Jalen Hertz go play each other next week. And if one of those really suffers in that game, I guess you're starting to see, where's the terrible Brock Purdy game against a giant killer that we see recently. He's surging and other guys are starting to knock each other off. I think that affects voting.

I think the last five weeks, I stand by that the last five weeks ultimately decided. Now you got to be in this top eight probably to start. But the last five weeks will be huge. And if it's on QBWins, which it shouldn't be, and yet that will be a huge factor. All these guys are all about the same in terms of their team. So how their teams finish obviously is a huge factor.

I'll say it again just because it keeps on coming up, and this isn't coming at you at all, Greg, but still people have to vote. Are we really going to, on NFL honors night, going to call up Tyree Kill, who is someone that has just violence in his past and his hurt people. If DeShawn Watson was having a monster year this year, would we be okay giving him the MVP? Where's the line? Where's the separation with these guys and what they've done in their personal life? And when did we decide that they're worthy for the discussion of these on-field awards? And when they should be disqualified or even be vilified as people with no redeeming qualities? Where is that line?

I'm a little confused. Well, no redeeming qualities is a pretty strong statement about any person. But I guess I would say we've let him… First of all, he's back into the league for five, six years. He's won multiple postseason awards from the exact same 50 voters that are voting on this. The awards, I think, say you're not supposed to take that into account. Could that come into account ultimately on a big award like MVP? That's the biggest. That's a fair point to make. I don't tend to think that's getting priced into those numbers or into voters thoughts again, but I could be wrong. It's a fair point. I would say, though, the exact same 50 people are voting in first team all pro year after year, which you can say isn't as big a deal. It isn't, but it's a big honor. It makes a big difference to him. They've been voting for that thing.

Then for people that don't know, he had an ugly domestic violence arrest in college, and there was a child abuse investigation while he was with the chiefs. That was a huge story at the time. It is a spotty record to say the least around Hill. But you know what? If he goes for 2,000 yards and carries that offense to historic places, yeah, from pure statistical breakdown, he's in that conversation. It's just, you know. Anything else?

It's about it. I'll save my Tyrie, Keel, Casey. You're right, it is a little awkward for later, but I got some good numbers from later.

Oh, good. Okay. Well, that's nice. Let's see. That's our busy, busy Sunday, Monday, Tuesday. We're going to watch some games, recharge our batteries and get ready for our Wednesday program, then a Thursday program, and then another Thursday program. The wheel, it keeps spinning. Thank you to everybody for your support. We could not do it without you. I'm still seeing all those in our mentions, all those people that have been listening to around the NFL and the podcast. It's a big part of their experience, whether they're in their cars or at home or maybe there's a near piece in when the wife or the husband's talking and you could just shut out the world. I want those kids would.

Be quiet. Someone at 84,000? Was that a real thing? How is that even possible? 84,000 minutes.

It's incredible. Thank you to everybody. The fact that we still have you guys with us 11 years in, we're very lucky.

Why don't hundreds of people have 84,000 minutes? That's my question.

Because do the math. It's like four hours a day. We don't even make close to that amount of content. It's just.

A lot. Well, someone showed that it's possible. Follow that individual's glory.

I like that, Mark. As the great philosopher Paul Huston once said, ambition bites the nails of success. You just got to keep pushing. Keep pushing. Keep pushing. All right, till next time. Thank you, everybody. Heed the call.