Prime Minister, sometime in the next nine months, you'll face the electorate for the first time as lead of your party. What makes you a winner?

Delivering for the British people. Now, I got this job. We've been through a lot as a country. We'd had the pandemic, and just as we were recovering from the pandemic, the war in Ukraine drove up everyone's energy bills, grappling with inflation, and it was a really tough time for everyone. But I'm determined to make sure that people feel when the election comes, that the future is better, that we have turned a corner. I think at the start of this year, you can see that that is beginning to happen. Inflation has fallen from 11% to just over 3% the other week. Taxes are being cut by £900 for an average worker, kicking into people's pay slips next week. Energy bills are falling, and we can get a sense that the future is going to be brighter for people and their families. They can have that peace of mind and that confidence, and that's what I've worked incredibly hard to deliver.

You might have that sense, but for the last year, you've been 20 point of drift in every single poll. You may be the only person in Britain who that you're delivering. What will make you a winner this Thursday at local elections and in the general election?

Local elections are always difficult for incumbent parties, but actually, I think this is a chance to focus on what the reality of labor in power actually means. Look We've got Birmingham, where labor have bankrupt the local-Nobody's not worried about labor.

They're worried about you and your point of delivery.

Elections are a choice, and we've got a choice in the West Midlands. Labor have bankrupted the largest local authority in Europe, and people in Birmingham are paying the price with a council tax increase of 21%. And in contrast, you've got Andy Street, fantastic mayor, delivering housing in the right places, attracting investment for people. And I think that's the contrast. T-sight is another good example. You've got Ben Houchan delivering, leveling up in action, saving the airport, attracting the Treasury campus to Darrington, investing in high streets and town centers, or in London, which is the one place in the country, pretty much, where knife crime is increasing, everywhere else is going down on average. It's the one place where the Labor Mayor, Sadeet Khan, has not met his police recruitment targets while we've delivered 20,000 more police officers. That's the choice at those elections, Trevor, and people will have a chance, obviously, to express that.

I've let you make that point, but neither Ben Houcher nor Andrew Street would say right now that they're absolutely safe.

But let's talk about- I'm not saying... I said elections for incumbent governments are always difficult midterm, but I think the local elections do give us a chance to talk about what the reality of labor and power means, whether it's rising crime in London, rising council tax in Birmingham.

Let's talk about the reality of Conservatives in power. This week, you announced that you'd spend 75 billion pounds on defense, put the country on war footing. That's money that could have been spent on hospitals and schools, isn't it? You've made a choice.

I have made a choice. I've made a choice because whether we like it or not, the world that we're living in is more dangerous. There's an axis of authoritarian states with different values to ours, acting in a way that is more assertive and in a way that's more coordinated, Iran, Russia, North Korea, China, and that is damaging to our country, to our values, to our interests. So the right thing for me to do as Prime Minister, given that security of our people is my first responsibility, is to ensure that we invest to keep the country safe. And that's why I've announced the biggest strengthening of our national defense in a generation. You're right, we're taking defense spending up to 2.5% of GDP, and that will mean that we've got the investments we need to keep our country safe. And that's why when I stood alongside the NATO Secretary General, when I announced this, and he praised the UK's leadership. We lead by example on the world stage, and that's how we will keep everyone safe.

Here's the thing, though, Prime Minister, this sum is going to be spent over six years. You just outlined the scale of the challenge that you faced. Nobody can argue about that. But some experts say that this doesn't really, in fact, amount to much more than £20 billion. Even if it is £75 billion over six years, it's not that much. This is just an attempt to create a riding in line with labor, isn't it?

It's the biggest strengthening of our national defense in a generation. You look at any of the military experts, any of the former defense secretaries, or indeed, the NATO Secretary General or world leaders from elsewhere have all praised the UK's leadership. Now, we have always led. When 2014, we had a NATO summit in the UK where allies pledged to spend 2% of their GDP on defense. We are one of the four countries that met that pledge, and we've met it for a decade. But unfortunately now, the environment is more dangerous, and I think this represents a turning point for security, which is why we set a new baseline of 2.5%. The UK is again leading by example, will be the biggest defense vendor in Europe, second biggest in NATO, behind the US. And crucially, though, Trevor, the important point here is this is what is required to keep the country safe. It is a generational investment in our security, and indeed, we're here in this incredible plant, in our prosperity because the defense industry supports There's hundreds of thousands of jobs across the UK, and that investment will also come back to creating and supporting jobs here.

But crucially, the question is here-I get your point, but-No, no. But the question is, there's a choice. You talked about elections, right?

I'm not going to tell me the choice between you it's a I'm not a junior laborer. We get that.

Trevor, this is the country's security. We have made a choice. I think it's the important and right choice for our country. The Labor Party have not matched that pledge. That is the choice for the country. If you I think that the world is more dangerous and we do have to invest. There's only one party that is going to deliver that.

I want to ask you about your claim about delivery. Let's turn to your flagship policy, Rwanda. It's what you asked us to judge you by. I just want to start this by asking you to be precise about what counts as success. When you say, Stop the boat, do you mean every small boat or just some small boat?

Well, take a step back. When I got this job- No, I just like you to deal with this.

You're a precise guy. I just want to deal with that precise.

I'm very clear. I want to stop the boat. But let's take a step back. When I got this job- All of them? Yeah. Illegal migration is wrong. We just saw this week, Trevor, more people tragically died in the channel. More people died. They tragically lost their lives because they're exploited by criminal gangs. Do you think any life lost is acceptable? I don't. No, I don't. And I don't think anyone should accept it.

We are going to agree about all of that, but you're not answering the actual question I asked you, which is, what is success? What success is- Is it zero small boat Or just a smaller number?

Well, success is stopping the boat. We already did deliver a smaller number last year. Stopping all boats. We did deliver a smaller number last year. If you remember before I got this job, the number of boats had literally quadrupled in a few years. They had gone up and up and up. I got this job, we worked hard at it, and as a result, last year, you saw the numbers go down already. We already reduced the number of boats by 36% last year.

You're throwing numbers at me, but let me put one back to you. There's over 6,000 this quarter which is more than 25% up on the same quarter last year.

Yeah, and as I said this week, almost all, almost the entirety of that increase comes from one country, Vietnam. Because last year, we dealt with the problem that was illegal migrants from Albania. We returned thousands. We saw the numbers drop. That shows you that deterrence works. And we will be able to do that with Vietnamese as well. And we've had Vietnamese officials here in the UK. We're talking to the Home Office about how we strengthen our You keep describing the situation to me, but not answering the question about what success means.

But let me deal with your point about...

Well, I've been precisely clear about this.

Is it zero boat? You said, you stood up and you said, I I'm going to make you this promise. You used the word promise.

Stop the boat. I do want to stop the boat. I do want to end an legal migration. Okay.

Because the number we're looking at is zero. All right.

You're trying to make a political point scoring point about it. Do you You are. But do you think anyone- You're about delivery, and I'm asking you what it is your delivery. But Trevor, think about the alternative answer to your question. Is a party leader or a Prime Minister sitting here and says, Yes, there is a level of illegal migration that I will accept. How can the answer to that question be anything other than no? Illegal migration is wrong. It is unfair. It undermines our sense of fairness. People tragically lose their lives as they did this week in the channel. Now, there is no amount of that that is acceptable or right. Anyone sitting here should be telling you they are determined as I am to do everything they can to end this awful trade.

That's what I'm determined to do. Can I just quickly ask you one thing? Other than that, Deputy Prime Minister Well, on this point, though, because you talk about Rwanda, it is important.

We did just have an important moment this week that in spite of all the opposition from the Labor Party, we have passed the Rwanda Bill through Parliament in the face of enormous opposition. That's important because the only way to fully solve this problem is to have a deterrent so that if people come to our country illegally, they're not able to stay and we can return them. That's my view and that's what I'm delivering.

I'm sorry if I appear to be hurrying you up, but I'm working according to your timetable, which is Unlimited. If we had lots of time, I could let you repeat the answer. But let me just quickly ask you, Ireland's Deputy Prime Minister says that many of the people who are coming across in these boats are finding their way into Ireland. Are we simply exporting the problem now? Is that the deterrent?

Well, my focus is on the United Kingdom and securing our borders. But what that comment illustrates is a couple of things. One, that illegal migration is a global challenge, which is why you're seeing multiple countries talk about doing third country partnerships, looking at novel ways to solve this problem, and I believe will follow where the UK has led. But what it also shows, I think, is that the deterrent is, according to your comment, already having an impact because people are worried about coming here, and that demonstrates exactly what I'm saying. If people come to our country illegally but know that they won't be able to stay, they're much less likely to come, and that's why the Rwanda scheme is so important.

That's success. Let's just talk about the politics of this week. You are going to get a drubbing at the local elections. How many seats do you have to lose before you accept that the people have lost confidence in you, and it's time either for you to stand down or to call a general election?

Well, look, when it comes to a general election, I've been very clear about that multiple times. I said at the beginning of this year- Then you have.

I'm going to ask you about that. Well, let me ask you about it. You said second half of this year. Second half of this year could be July.

And again, I'm not going to say anything more than I've already said. I've been very clear about that.

We're not going to have July.

Again, you're going to try and say you're ruling this in, you're ruling that in. I remember when I was- I just need to know where to make my holidays. July is possible. Actually, Trevor, it's more important than your holiday or anyone's holiday. I've We have a job to do which is delivering for the country. As we've been talking about, we are delivering when it comes to tackling illegal migration. We're delivering when it comes to investing in our defense.

July, and we can move on.

It could be July. I'm not going to do that, and you're going to try and do this. I remember you did the same thing when I was Chancellor. Before budgets, you can't put this tax to me in this tax car and say, You're rolling this out, you're rolling this out and rolling that out. I'm just trying to get a clear answer. I give you the same answer every time. On this, though, we've talked about it.

You're not going to roll out July.

You're going to try and draw whatever conclusion you want from I say, I'm going to always say the same thing. You should just listen to what I said, the same thing I said all year. But the point is, there's a choice when it comes to the general election. And look, over the past week or so, you're having a very clear sense. The country can have a very clear sense of what that difference is going to look like. I've outlined radical reforms to our welfare system, where we've seen an unacceptable rise in not just the welfare bill, but we are wasting the potential of a generation of people. So we need to reform our welfare system to support to get more people into work, make sure the system is not being exploited. I've announced a massive increase in defense spending because that's what's necessary to keep our country safe. We've passed our Rwanda bill through Parliament because I believe in stopping the boats. And next week, everyone in work is going to see in their paychecks a tax cut worth £900. Now, that's what I'm getting on and delivering. That is the substance of what this government is about and what it's going to do in the future.

And when the election comes, there'll be a clear choice because the Labor Party has tried to frustrate our Rwanda bill because they don't believe in stopping the boats. Their economic plan will put people's taxes up. They haven't said that they will invest more in our defense. Prime Minister, we've agreed that that election- They certainly don't agree with reforming our welfare system to support people in to work.

That election could come in July. Let me talk about what you will be putting to people, or the mood of the people. Sky has done an exclusive poll this week, and what it demonstrates is that of the people who voted to conservative in 2019, something like two-thirds say they I cannot believe the promises that you, Prime Minister, conservative Prime Minister, give. Isn't that humiliating that your own voters no longer trust you?

No, because it's been a very difficult time for the country. And of course, I know people are frustrated. I think of all the things we've already spoken about. I think I could complete... Well, I actually do think because I'm out and about every week talking to lots of people myself. And of course, there's been a sense of frustration about the last few years. Everything we've been through as a country hasn't been easy for anybody. But I am confident that we have turned a corner, and you can see that most clearly in the economy. When I got this job, inflation was at 11%. Because of our plan, and that plan is working, in the last set of numbers, inflation has fallen to 3.2%, energy bills are falling by hundreds of pounds, wages have been rising for several months in a row, the economy is growing, and next week, in everyone's paycheck, they're seeing a tax cut worth on average £900 over the year. I think that is signs of progress, and that will make a difference to people.

Let's talk about something that was important. When you arrived as Prime Minister, having been Chancellor, your ratings, personal ratings, were 30 points ahead of your party. Today, you are down where your party is in really massively negative territory. Do you feel disappointed that the conservative Party has dragged you down? It's ruining your reputation.

No, I don't. Again, it's probably like the-The behavior of some of your colleagues. The fourth or fifth question you've asked where you've talked about polls and politics. And you know what? I'll tell you what I do every day. I get up and I work hard to deliver for the country on the things that they care about. Actually, you know what? I'm not distracted or focused on polls. I'm asking about policy. No, but I'm saying this is just a big difference. I'm focused on the substance of what I can deliver from the country.

You're asking people to vote for you and your colleagues this week. You've got to deal with that point. And I'm really just asking you.

And I'm very happy to talk about that, Trevor. You've died over a party that has dragged you down. But again, let's talk about this week. But the substance of what's going to happen this week is in the West Midlands, there's a choice. The Labor Party have bankrupted Birmingham, the largest local authority in Europe, and put up council tax by 21 %.

You have told me that already.

I've got that. But this is my point. That's The substance of what's happening this week, not some poll about this or a poll about that or who says this. The substance is there's a council tax rise of 21 % of everyone in Birmingham. Andy Street is delivering for people in Teeside. Ben Hauchen is delivered, levering up in action, saving the airport, attracting government jobs, investing in high streets and town centers. That is the reality. In London, crime is going up when it's going down everywhere else. That's the substance of what this election is about, not about this poll or who said what about this person?

Well, who said what about this person? What it seems to me is that you're quite reluctant to talk about the most important person here, which is you. I spoke to a leading conservative. I won't tell you where they are in Parliament, but a supporter of yours, somebody who likes you, who has spoken out for you and so on. And what that individual said is this, he wished that you had stayed doing the job as Chancellor, and that you would be remembered as a brilliant Chancellor rather than the Prime Minister who took the Tories into the wilderness. If you could turn the clock back, would you take his advice?

No, I made my reasons for that clear at the time, but I'm proud of the record that I have as Chancellor, and that's where people got to know me. I became Chancellor three weeks later. We got hit with a, hopefully once in a century pandemic, and people saw what I could do for this country. I stepped up to get the country through a very a difficult time, protected 10 million jobs in the process, and ensure that we have the fastest economic recovery out of the pandemic, out of any major European economy. So yes, that is a record that, of course, I'm proud of, and I'm bringing exactly that same set of values and exactly that same set of dedication to the job that I have now. And that's why on the priorities that people care about, whether it's bringing inflation down, growing the economy, reducing our debt, cutting waiting lists, which we haven't talked about, which are now down over the last five months, or indeed stopping the boats with my determination to get the Rwanda scheme going. There are 200,000 down on the record number from September. These are all the things that I'm delivering and focused on.

That's what I'm all about. That's the substance of what we're doing. After a difficult few years, we have turned a corner and things are pointing in the right direction. I am absolutely committed and energized to deliver for this country in this job.

Last question, Prime Minister. If you lose, there will be no regrets then.

Again, I'm focused on all this personality stuff. I'm focused on delivering for the country. I'm focused on you. And what I'm doing is getting up every single day and working my hardest to deliver for people on the things that matter to them and matter to me. And as you've seen over just the past week or two, that's what we're doing. Significant reforms to our welfare system to support people into work because that's good for them, because there's dignity and purpose and hope in work, and the current system is simply financially unsustainable, and that's not fair. Massive investment in our defense because the world we're living in is more uncertain. A landmark piece of legislation to get our Rwanda scheme up and running to stop the boats. A tax cut worth £900 next week in everyone's pay slips. That's what I'm focused on.

Prime Minister, I hope we'll be able to talk more about this after the election. Me too.